Way back when, Sears & Rubbish had some pretty good stuff.
Too bad, they let the "bean counters" ruin the company and the products they sell.
Today, I wouldn't even bother walking into one of their stores.
It is truly a shame how the company has been destroyed, IMHO.
Lew
We can't blame anyone but ourselves. If we did not demand the absolute lowest price for everything we buy, quality and service would not be a distant memory.
As long as Sears is competing with Harbor Fright the quality is bound to suffer.
IMHO, there is a little bit more to it.
Before Lee Iocca showed up, Lynn Townsend, a bean counter was well on his way to destroying Chrysler
Roger Smith, another bean counter, IMHO, did a great job of wasting a lot of General Mptors resources before he was replaced.
Recognizing your goal and accomplishing it is of utmost importance, IMHO, something "bean counters" don't seem to grasp.
I disagree.
If you supply a quality product at a fair price, you will survive and flourish.
We sell quality products at a fair price. We have a lot of competitors who sell their products for a lot less.
18 years later, we are still in business, many of our competitors are not.Lew
Agreed on that, Lee Valley Tools is an example of that. But, it's a very difficult thing to do when the first instinct for most people is the cost. Quality while important to some, maybe even many, is always the second consideration.
Well, let's see, according to you his saw is going to burn out real soon. So why shouldn't he wait until that happens to toss it and get a new one instead of tossing it and getting a new one right now?
I think you might be right. The power tools I bought from Sears in the early 70's are still holding up fairly well. My old Sears cast iron shaper has a lot of miles on it - but still runs like new - ditto for the old 12" BS.
In the mid-seventies I quit buying Sears stuff because I couldn't find anything I needed in anything better than lightweight aluminum castings and formed 18 ga sheet steel. I wasn't hung up on price; I just wanted something that'd do the job and hold together. Sears just didn't have the quality I wanted - so I made the big switch to commercial grade tools /in spite of/ the damage to my wallet.
A fair proportion of the other woodworkers I knew made that same decision at (about) the same time. I still buy wrenches and sockets from Sears, but that's about all.
I think they made their decision to "cheap-out" because some star MBA convinced management that they could capture more market share by using their good tool reputation to provide some kind of sales inertia while they peddled cheapened product with a higher profit margin. It probably /did/ provide the desired result briefly - until their customers wised up wised up, decided that Sears wasn't entitled to continuing loyalty, and moved on to other tool sources.
I suppose you still would use a stone axe because it hasn't broken yet.
It all comes down to using the right tool for the job. I wouldn't use a stone axe for making a piano; OTOH, if your objective is to make a hand-hewn beam or a split-rail fence, and you have a perfectly workable stone axe, you might as well use it.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Well, if the only thing I had to replace it with was another stone axe made by a different knapper then yeah, I'd stick with the one I had until I needed a new one.
You're not talking about replacing an existing tool with a new tool that has increased functionality, you're talking about replacing an existing tool with one that has the same functionality solely because you hold personal animosity toward the maker.
I don't see where you can come up with that conclusion in my post. And no one said anything about tossing anything.
Why don't you read and understand before making a comment that makes no sense at all unless you're a troll. If you like the Craftsman brand of tools - go buy them. I simply told of my experience and I certainly can't recommend the Craftsman brand. Others in the group agree and others, like yourself don't - that's why Sears is still selling crap tools.
Bob S.
A major problem with so many corporations is that they forget who their customers are. Consumers should be the customers but stockholders replace them. GM, for example, has never gotten the idea (Saturn being the exception), Chrysler never understood what was at stake, Ford had it right in the 90s and has now gone back to maximizing short term profit.
mahalo, jo4hn
What part of "I can't belive no one has said it yet. You throw away the crapsman and replace it with a PC, DeWalt, Makita or any other DECENT saw." did you not understand?
Why don't you read the whole thread before you disagree with somebody and find out what _he_'s responding to?
Who "recommended the Craftsman brand"? The comment was made that one should throw away a perfecly good Craftsman tool and buy a PC, DeWalt, Makita, or any other DECENT saw. Commenting that that is bad advice is not "recommending the Craftsman brand", it's simple common sense.
Your "
I wore out my first Circ . . . Craftsman, mid-'80's vintage. Replaced it with a PC.
Dad still has his first Craftsman Circ--6-1/2" "Craftsman Commercial" brushed steel body. I'm likely to inherit it.
He also has his first 9", 1/2HP Contractor saw (1960's--dodgy to setup, but holds its settings just fine), and his first 10" Craftsman RAS (3/4HP) from the 1970s (not bad to set up at all, just time consuming).
I've noticed recently that their iffy quality took a decided uptick when Home Depot got into the game--I'm seeing less of the "Oh Cool Feature . . made of plastic" and more practical offerings. BiL just got a Craftsman router . . it ain't my PC, but its motor nameplate is comparable and it's relatively frill free.
I remember seeing a 12" CMS that was solidly built and well-powered
--nice feature was that the tilt scale was LOUD AND CLEAR, unlike most.
If I hadn't JUST bought a yellow one . . .
Well, Bighole - If I needed a stone axe I would still use it if I had one.
Your point?
Up until the point that one of them breaks, an equally powered Craftsman, Ryobi, Makita, DeWalt, etc circular saw with an equal blade ALL WILL CUT THE SAME. My comment referenced the stupid idea that one should throw out a perfectly good tool because it's a lower quality. Can it still cut a 2x4? Can it still cut the 2x4 as good as a DeWalt? Yes? Good - then keep the damn thing.
Vic
Bob - the "advice" still sux. To throw away a perfectly good tool ( which is what was proposed) JUST because it's a Craftsman is sheer ignorance. Sorry you've had such a bad time with Craftsman products - in your OPINION they are crap but there are many others who swear by not at them.
FWIW, I still use a 10"Craftsman Contractor saw circa 1960, A 1/4 in router circa 1962 and various and sundry drills etc. My bandsaw is Grizzly, I have PC routers and Hitachi routers, Harbor Freight jointer, Rigid spindle sander, DeWalt Jigsaw and Some I'm sure I've forgotten. All work well. With a WWII blade on the TS I get as smooth and square a cut as anything you can turn out.
Would I buy a Sears router today? Nope - price/quality mix is not good. I'd rather spend my $$ on something better BUT I object to people who paint everything with the same brush.
I've read posts that complain how the Sears quality has deteriorated through the years. In a way I object to that comment. Sears has ALWAYS had mixed quality products. Low/medium and high - you had to look and shop wisely.
Harbor freight is another that gets a blanket bad mouth from some of the "pundits" in the Wreck - I say that's stupid. I live fairly near a HF outlet so I can get in and pick through the stuff. I may look at 10 clamps before I find a good one BUT the price/quality mix is exceptional. Would I order by mail? Not generally, their quality is inconsistent enough that I'd be unsure. BUT I wouldn't say that HF only has junk. THAT'S the type of "advice" I object to.
Just MHO,
Vic
Not just true, but something Sears emphasized back when I was a kid lying on the floor going over the big book. They had categories for most items, Good, Better, Best.
Seems like a sensible idea for today's world, except that no one today will admit to getting by with "Good" regardless of brand.
Charlie Self "It is even harder for the average ape to believe that he has descended from man." H. L. Mencken
if all you're going to do is cut the odd 2x4, sure.
if you're going to try to do precision work with it, you'll want a saw with better beraings and a better shoe.
Who does precision work with a circular saw? I thought you just rough it straight with a guide and then clean it up on the table saw...
You mean you wouldn't replace the stone axe with a nice sharp metal axe that will make your life a lot easier!
I don't have a TS. The one I have access to can only rip to 12"
For large pieces, I have a number of guides I've built out of either Borg Birch or Baltic Birch plywood.
Almost all my sheet goods work is cut to finished size in one slice with the circular saw.
All my large panel glueups are cut to finished size with the circular saw.
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