How dangerous are lathes?

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Well, he cautioned us against hair and loose clothing, but not a word about safety glasses or dust masks.
The other woodworking class I took wouldn't let you use machinery without safety glasses with side shields, though they were very casual about dust also.
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wrote:

Well, dust isn't much of an issue at the lathe except while sanding (when it's a *major* issue)... but eye protection is mandatory. Safety glasses are a bare minimum; turners with good sense use full face shields.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

It's always a problem for me. I seem to turn the woods that have thick bark raided from different places as well different glued exotics I cobble together.
The bark of mesquite comes off in clouds when you hit a punky area. Molds? Spores? Fungus? I am sure they are all present along with the requisite amount of fine dirt that a mesquite will collect in that rough bark in the windy, dusty areas it grows best.
I personally am scared of the exotics and take great care aound them. I have had some bad skin rashes caused by exotics, so I can only imagine what that might do to my throat, lungs and sinus cavities.
And come on Doug.... you mean you don't get those fine wisps that hang in the air from a properly sharpened scraper or a bowl gouge turned with the flutes parallel to the cut surface?
Just kiddin'.
Actually.... I only did the bowl gouge thing once while I was being supervised by a guest turner that uses his bowl gouge for everything. I can do it with a scraper with a fresh edge anytime. Those wisps are close enough to dust for me. I have tried the "Dust BeeGone" mask and liked it, but I really like the good seal of those masks and a change to a fresh, clean mask (not full of sweat and grime) after turning for a couple of hours. Also, I didn't like washing it out after I used it.
I use the booger/mucous test on those dental masks, and they do quite well. The test of course is in the hot shower after the debris is cleaned up. Without going into details, they passed with flying colors.
Robert
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Thank you. If all you fault him on is his briefing, he can't have been too bad.
Some things are so obvious they go without saying. Eye protection being one of them. Lathe is far less likely to cause problems in that regard than things that whirl the tool not the workpiece. The real idiot is not the one who failed to mention, but the one who fails to use. Same with dust. If it irritates you, protect yourself. If you think it might irritate you someday, protect yourself. Sort of like wiping, as the DI used to say. He shouldn't have to tell you that. Perhaps a "D" for personal safety for not wearing wasn't too harsh after all. Betting there were posted warnings on the wall.
The lathe is certainly far down the list of life/limb risking machines. I've not seen a lathe accident which required my services in twenty-five years, though the saws and shapers have made some horrible messes. To me the hot dog hot stop makes perfect sense.
Watch your instructor and see if maybe he's teaching you to stand out of the way without mentioning it, cut the wood versus stab it, and not use excessive speed at any time. He may be better than you think. Perhaps what he meant to say is "no reason for a thinking man to get hurt at the lathe"?
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George wrote:
SNIP

Aww... here we go. It took a while for it to get here, but finally the inner SawStop has come out from someone.
If you are intelligent enough to think about what you are doing, you won't get hurt. So what does that mean in your world? The flip side of your hypothesis is the people that should expect to get hurt are the ones that won't think, can't think, aren't able to think, or don't know how to think? Only non-thinkers get hurt at the lathe?
So accidents don't happen, much less bad accidents don't happen to those that think. All you have to do is "thinking man" and you have "no reason" to worry about being hurt while using the lathe.
Yeah, right.


Main Entry: accident Pronunciation: 'ak-s&-d&nt, -"dent; 'aks-d&nt Function: noun
1 a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance b : lack of intention or necessity : CHANCE <met by accident rather than by design>
So... can you think your way throught the unforseen? Obviously you don't believe accidents exist, perhaps only in a word.
What a load.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

[schnipfered to brevitize]

Mmmmmm....here's my take on that. Somebody who doesn't use his head and makes a stupid move is more likely to get hurt than somebody who does use his head and makes smarter/safer/more thought-out moves. One is more vulnerable than the other. One is more likely to get hurt. Neither will have immunity from a random series of events which lead to an unforseen event resulting in an accident. But if I had to place a bet? My money would be on the brighter of the two. Smart people can make mistakes too......or so I'm told.
<G>
r
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Robatoy wrote:

I couldn't agree more with your thoughts. I think it is a sure bet that careless distraction is certainly a recipe for accidents. And I think it stands to reason that a prepared person that is focused on the task at hand, employing available safety protection is less likely to SUFFER from the results of an accident. However, no amount of thinking or planning will prevent or preclude all accidents. By definition that is why the term exists.
In my experience, it is not carelessness or distraction that causes accidents. I have found that most DIY and "semi pro" (whatever in the hell that is) suffer at the hands of their own arrogance and over confidence. And I couldn't have found a better example if I had interviewed a hundred people: "no reason for a thinking man to get hurt at the lathe".
My point was simply that sometimes you do all you can to be a safe as possible, and there are still events that transpire that you cannot anticipate. Safety gear and focus are the best ways to keep from having accidents, and to mitigate the results when you have them.
I have never met anyone (maybe I need to get out more) than can outsmart an (not even a smart "thinking man") accident by simply thinking about things.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote: [snip]

Yabbut, yabbut...(at the risk of belabouring the point).. doesn't a thinking man have an advantage when assessing risk? Even though I have done a certain routine a bunch of times, I tend to stop and think and ask myself the following question: "IF this is going to fark me over, how would it happen?" That is as natural as ascertaining that I have enough cord to get to the end of a cut I'm making. I don't start cutting and then, when 60% through the cut, I run out of cord...now I have to look at my problem, or try to pull on the cord...or stop and start things... (I got really close to getting hurt that way.)... basically losing focus of my activity. It is at times like that, when shiat tends to happen.
But I think we agree. Working with power tools is no time to be stupid.
Lathes interest me.
r
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Robatoy wrote:

Seeming clear to me, I must be obtuse in my explanation. I think we are saying the same thing, but maybe not.

An accident is an uplanned event. When I said " I think it is a sure bet that careless distraction is certainly a recipe for accidents", I meant that someone that is not paying attention to what they are doing is more likely to have an accident.
But in my mind, someone that isn't paying attention to what they are doing (especially when using any kind of tool) is careless. An injury due to wandering, unfocused mind (distracted?) is an injury due to carelessness. Maybe from negligent stupidity, maybe just from not paying attention to what you are doing. If injury happens in those circumstances, it is not an accident at all, but careless stupidity. It is injury due to dumbass, of which I have suffered my share.

and there are >still events that transpire that you cannot anticipate. Safety gear and focus are the best ways >to keep from having accidents, and to mitigate the results when you have them.
I was agreeing with you, again by saying "sometimes you do all you can". An idiot doesn't care. A lazy ass won't try or care. Someone that doesn't think won't wear any safety protection. Only someone that thinks about the consequences that occur if there is a moment in the Bahamas while using a tool, or someone that has had an actual accident will wear protection.
Pertaining to the lathe, we have had numerous injuries reported while using them, mostly due to improper tool use/bad technique, the wrong tool for the job, or carelessness. That probably takes in 95% of all the injuries. These are injuries (not intentional) due to dumbass.
However, we have also had 3 or 4 broken scrapers (Crown, I think) that shot broken steel out, but only nicked one of the guys. I was turning a very carefully inspected golf ball sized piece of wood at about 4000 between centers, and the piece loosed a quarter sized piece of wood (NOT on the end I was working on) that whacked me in the forehead just above the googles. I had a pretty nasty dent in my head and it bled like hell. I thought as expressed here that all runaway chunks or chips had to go away from the turner when using the lathe.... I had heard that was rule. We even had a really experienced turner in my group that had a bowl gouge break and had one large piece fly off and bounce around unitl it just whacked him in the chest (it was Sorby - cheerfully replaced by Woodcraft). Bowls that break into pieces from UNSEEN defects, chunks of unseen knots or occlisions can take flight.
If you are 100% focused on what you are doing, if you check and cannot see potential problems with the task you are going to perform, if you use the right tool for the right job, if you use the right material for the job, if you use the right techniques and methods for the task at hand AND you still are injured without being negligent to due diligence of your own safety, that is an accident.
Now, was that clear as mud and twice as thick? ;^)
It's just my opinion anyway. In our society today, it is never really our fault. We are all victims of something. I see people do the most assinine things and scream about how they had an accident. Because they didn't anticipate they would pay the price for carelessness, in their minds, that makes it an accident. Injury by dumbass, says I.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

We are on the same page. (CRINGE, I hate that over-used phrase..) Dumbasses and lazy farks take chances. If I rip down some cobwebs from the dusty caverns of my memory banks, I seem to remember that on the Space Shuttle there are 900+ 'criticality #1' items that on launch if ONE of them fails.....Kaboom! The other Kabooms that happen, is when people become careless and arrogant and go beyond what is considered safe---> taking a chance. Nobody has control of 100.00000000% of all parameters.. and that includes a small tectonic plate shuffle which will make your gouge go a LITTLE BITTY bit too far into the bowl. Them's accidents.

'Twas, actually. Thanks for taking the time to respond in such detail.

Yup. Indeed. When you have seen somebody about to do something dangerous and stupid...did you ever fill your lungs with extra air, so that you could express a warning "EXTRA loud", just to realize, that a yell would only startle the stupid fark and make things worse?
I call them 'headshakers'.
r
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Robatoy wrote:

So, think out of the box! <G>
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After that Mark Foley thing I don't use this cliche anymore... ;-)
-- Mark
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Why don't congressmen no longer use bookmarks? They just bend over a page.
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And yet it was the externals of the intern that caught Billie Jeff ....
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wrote:

<snip>
I have grown sons, all pretty bright. One of them, perhaps the brightest, can be a serious space cadet at times. Loses focus on mundane activities, and puts all around him at risk.
We try really hard not to distract him when he has sharp tools at hand. Riding with him when he drives is serious business.
Patriarch
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Seems like my random series of events just about always involves a bowl with a hidden weakness. After that, things are moving so quickly I suspect physics may have taken over.
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On 30 Nov 2006 11:42:05 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

In the vast majority of cases, yes.

Going by the definition of 'accident' that you give, 'unforseen' and 'unplanned' have no meaning to someone who understands the risks and plans for them. If you're an idiot and don't know what you're doing and don't plan for safety and failure, then you're going to get injured a lot more often than someone who approaches the task intelligently and rationally.
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Had the same thing with a bowl. Left a dent in the face shield and dazed me enough that I spent the rest of the day turning channels.
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" In HS metal shop I was standing right next to a

Reminds me of a vo-tech metal shop incident. We were turning 12" long aluminum bar to various diamenters and then threading each diameter. I heard "whack - crash" followed by "OH SHIT!" from behind me. An instant later my position and others were showered with crumbled concrete. The bar in the lathe behind me left the machine, went straight up and struck a concrete beam in the ceiling of the old shop building. The bar pulverized a chunk of concrete about 2" deep and a foot in diameter; then left the building though a closed window. Ran the tool in a little to fast.
RonB
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How long has this guy been an instructor? He's never seen a tool catch or a turning come out of a chuck or break? Perhaps true that lathes are less dangerous than many other power tools, but people DO get hurt. and DAMHIKT.
--
No dumb questions, just dumb answers.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore, Maryland - snipped-for-privacy@charm.net
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