How come?

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wrote:

Check my website. My Novice xmter was a DX100, too, and I also had an NC300 rcvr.
Thanks for the response.
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
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Wes Stewart wrote:

I saw a poster the summer of 1976 that sums up my philosophy. The poster photo was a beautiful multi-story, ivy-covered mansion with a chauffer driven streatch limo in the circular drive. The lawn, bushes and flowers were obviously under the care of one or more full time individuals. It dripped with wealth and stability. The poster's caption:
"I Have Simple Tastes. I Want The Best."
The woodworking shop in my dreams has the equivalent of Theodore Horstmann for Nero Wolfe's orchid greenhouse. Theodore sets up all the equipment, and I make all the table saw cuts. ;-)
The reality is I don't have a full-time chef (Fritz), assistant (Archie Goodwin) and orchid nurse (T. Horstmann) working for me. So my one car garage shop has been built by me, one tool at a time, with extremely careful calculations of cost/effectiveness. I have had to deal with the setup problems of equipment.
If I hit the lottery (<g>) several people in the greater Washington DC area will receive an email to the effect, "How much per hour would you charge me to set up a woodworking shop?" I just want to make stuff; I don't like fussing with the setups.
<g>
-- Mark
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I hear ya...
Grew up on the farm. Owned a retail TV business in college. Got my ham license when I was a freshman -- chief engineer at a 1 KW AM radio station before I got married, etc., then 30 years at Hewlett-Packard before I got fed up with small-fry building their personal empires inside the company instead of doing their job.
We built our own home (1/5 acre of floor space) while the critics stood in line taking turns taking shots. Then last year went out on the internet to buy a dust collector not unlike yours. That's when I got my eyes opened about the HAZARDS associated with the dust collectors most people use in complete ignorance of those risks.
I don't wear my wedding ring -- ever, and my wife approves. She'd prefer a husband with 10 fingers instead of nine. The ring doesn't mean a thing for men who carouse anyway and women who prey on them.
Get a dust collector that works. Educate yourself at http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm , and if you're interested in getting a system that's done right, the cyclone kit and matching welded-all-steel blower housing are at http://cnets.net/~eclectic/woodworking/cyclone/ClarkesKits.cfm . Add a motor, controller for the motor, impeller, filters, and some ducting, and you have a first-rate dust collection system that WORKS, and without spending a big pile of cash.
As for other tools, table saws don't come with dado blades, importers don't ship assembled tools because they don't fit nicely in freight containers and they don't want to do it, even if the cost of the tool is 20% of the selling price... I bought a Powermatic drill press, and it turned out to be a piece of junk. The chuck wobbled and when you pulled it off of the tapered quill shaft, it was visibly obvious that the reamer had been run into it on the slant. And Powermatic had such nice machines when I used them at HP.
My wife says I'm spoiled. I expect quality from everybody. But if I make cyclone kits and blower housings, I demand quality from myself, so why can't I demand it of others? Some outfits make a nice living by keeping customers and consumers as poorly informed and as ignorant as possible. It's dangerous to have informed customers. They can see through the fakery.
CE
Wes Stewart wrote:

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On Sun, 25 Jan 2004 18:20:48 -0500 (EST), snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (T.) wrote:
|Sun, Jan 25, 2004, 11:49am (EST-2) n7ws@_arrl.net (WesStewart) |pontificates: |First some words <snip> |Why do woodworkers put up with such crappy tooling and machinery? | | I beg your pardon? My stuff may not be expensive, but it does just |what I want it to. As does the items I make, tool stands, jigs, etc. |Inexpensive it may be, if it does what it's supposed to then crappy it |is not. I don't see anyone offering to buy me any fancy, new, equipment |- or are you offering?
No. | |My loving wife is encourging me to buy whatever I want <snip> | | Oh, goody for you.
I believe so. Wives number 1 and 2 weren't so nice. | |I have been reading this group and all of the other references I can |find for reviews and opinions and frankly I appalled at what I'm |finding. | | You have apparently led a very sheltered life, and don't get out |much.
See comments about wives 1, 2 and 3.
| |In my former jobs, I have literally specified, approved, purchased and |used several million dollars worth of machinery, electronics test |equipment and components. | | And, you never bought for a bit of it with your own dime.
I didn't say that. But I did buy some of it with your dimes. Aren't you glad that I demanded better quality that you're willing to accept. Didn't look at it that way before did you? [G].
| |*Never* would I, or my employers, put up with buying stuff that was in |the sorry state that seems to be the norm for woodworking equipment. |Neither would our customers put up with us supplying products of similar |quality. | | The quality of the tool, is not necessarily indicitive of the end |result. You should have learned that by now.
Oh, I have. | | Apparently, then, none of the things made by any of the companies |you worked for were ever less than perfect.; nothing ever had to be |repaired, or returned. You must have been so happy.
Of course we had "returns" and we received crap from our suppliers too. In one instance, after visiting one of our suppliers, I recommended the recall of hundreds of Tomahawk missiles. For reasons beyond my control it didn't happen, but I believed I was looking out for our servicemen and you taxpayers.
OTOH, we built over three-quarters of a million TOW missiles at a unit cost of only $80,000. These were over 99% reliable, in fact this was a "fly-to-buy" program where the Army randomly selected a quantity of missiles from each month's production and fired them at Redstone Arsenal, in Huntsville, Alabama. (I helped instrument that firing range in the 70's) If they did not meet contract requirements, the Army didn't buy them. If we exceeded contract requirement, we got a bonus. At the height of production, we built over 1500 per month and missiles that have been in storage for 10 years, without *zero* maintenance, are routinely fired with nearly the same reliability.
Once again, since you helped pay for this, you should be happy too.
| |What's up with this? | | Well, since you seem to be so bright, you tell us.
I thought I was asking the question.
Warmest regards,
Wes
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wrote:
| At the height of production, we built over 1500 per month and |missiles that have been in storage for 10 years, without *zero* |maintenance, are routinely fired with nearly the same reliability.
Whoops, issue a recall... That should have read "with" zero maintenance.
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Wes, to a point you are correct. I too worked as an automotive machinist and mechanic. My interest and love of woodworking began with my grandfather, a master furniture builder. Continued by my father, who taught me at a very young age, 40 years ago or so, just how important a sharp tool is. I do not make my living as a woodworker however, I do take it as a serious hobby.
I have most of the tools available to woodworkers, Delta, Porter-Cable, Jet, Ect. I also have Miller and Lincoln welders (my other hobby), and there is no comparison in the quality. As we all know, the mass quantity of tools available in a rational price range are made in Taiwan/China. The USA gave up making them long ago.
The main difference between woodworking and metal working/machining is precision. The sort or precision required for machine work simply is not required for woodworking. Some talented woodworkers use no power tools at all and manage to create fabulous pieces. I have yet to see a neander metal worker. (Except maybe a blacksmith.)
The quality of your work in wood is a reflection of your skill and talent, not your wallet. Do you need to buy the absolute carp they pedal at HF? No. Will you have to buy a euro type saw to make furniture? No.
What you will need is quality hand tools and the ability to make and keep them sharp, and above all, the desire and talent to make quality pieces out of wood.
My two cents.
Dave

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wrote: [snip] | |What you will need is quality hand tools and the ability to make and keep |them sharp, and above all, the desire and talent to make quality pieces out |of wood. | |My two cents.
Worth a lot more than two cents. Thanks
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Eh? I don't beleive you paid very much attention to the millions of dollars of machinery & test equipment you were specifying. We not so long ago installed a several million dollar leadless component assembly line. Took a team of guys a week with shims & laser levels to get it to run...which is totally normal for that kind of equipment: it needs to be fine tuned and adjusted before it's ready for use. By the same token, every bit of electronic test equipment we get goes thru the calibration lab before it's put to use - even the $60k stuff from Aligent needs to be checked against a standard, and possibly adjusted, before it's used the first time. This is totally normal for the electronics industry. And I don't see that woodworking tools are any different - they need adjusting & fine tuning (in general in inverse proportion to price) to be ready for use.
John
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Wes Stewart wrote:

Actually, they generally don't. Most woodworkers buy the quality they decide they need; and many are willing and able to trade off purchase price against the investment of time and effort.
Woodworking tools are available from a number of quality ranges: [1] Junk, [2] Consumer, [3] Contractor, [4] Professional, and [5] Production. Every time a woodworker buys a tool, he/she makes a determination of quality requirements and an assessment of how much can be spent on that purchase.
Most of my shop is at [4]. I've replaced most of the [1], [2], and [3] stuff that I started out with; and just added my first [5] tool (a CNC router, bought to produce a specific set of products.)
There is a fair variety of equipment available that'd satisfy anyone's thirst for quality - but as with machine tools, the quality goes up linearly as the price goes up exponentially.
I'm thinking pretty seriously about adding a tiny milling machine and lathe (7x12) to my shop. I plan to spend about $1K for the pair and don't have great expectations about precision - but then I don't really need the kind of precision that the people in the Hughes model shop take for granted.
A lot of woodworkers seem to find as much joy in their tools as with what they create with the tools. Sharpening, tuning, aligning, squaring, truing, calibrating, polishing,... all bring their own satisfactions - at first because of the "I can do it!" factor; and later because of the difference in results made by liberally applying elbow-grease and TLC to the tools.
And after all, this is a /recreational/ woodworking forum
--
Morris Dovey
West Des Moines, Iowa USA
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