hook and loop sanders

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I have never been able so solve this problem with my H&L 333 PC sander. I even bought a new pad, but the problem persists.
When I apply a new sheet (use Norton), everything is fine for a while, then after (say) 20 min or so, the paper breaks loose and will not "stick" again - I throw it in a bucket and use the sheet for hand sanding. When I put on a new sheet, it's fine again - for a while anyway.
I don't hink it's a pad problem - more like a paper paroblem, but all local suppliers sell the Norton brand.
Frustrated for years with this!
Does anyone have a real solution (or maybe there is none).
Lou
wrote:

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You can sand for 20 minutes with the same disk?
8-10 minutes seems to be the max for me, even with Mirka abrasives. The sandpaper starts to dull and it's all downhill from that point.
Barry
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LOL Before I read your post I posted almost exactly the same as you.
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We use Klingspor sanding discs and never have a problem. max

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Good Lord,,, you sand with 1 piece of sand paper for 20 minutes??? You might find that if you change that paper out every 7 or 8 minutes that you will finish in half the time.
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Hmmm...guess I'm basically cheap.
Still, I'm talking finish sanding - 220. When these H&L sheets don't stick, there still seems to be a lot of grit left on them.
You actually only get 8 minutes of sanding from 1 sheet?
Maybe I'm expecting too much.
Thanks.
Lou
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I am especially talking finish sanding. Yeah there is a lot of grit left but compared to the new unused paper it can be quite dull. I go by the feel of the paper and by the appearance. I actually start to see the paper start to change form the white coating color to the paper backing color. Seriousely once a piece of paper dulls you are basically doing little in the way of sanding compared to a new piece of paper.

Not 1 sheet, 1 piece on the sander. While that does not seem like a long time I can probably sand a project in 1/3 to 1/2 the time by changing out the paper when it gets dull. Now if you like standing there sanding,,,, ;~)

Probably. I think you will be plesantly suprised at how much faster a new sheet will sand over one that has been working for 8 or 9 minutues. I do not have a dust collector on either of my sanders and can easily visually tell by the amount of dust being blown away by my fan how much more effecient a new piece of paper is over the one I have been using. I know that changing H&L that often may feel costly, that is why I use PSA over H& L.

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Have you tried the Nortan 3X sheets?
there support to work a lot better, I use Norton H&L with out any problem, the paper is sometimes a pain to get off when it's done, now is there any form of dust collection on your sander? is it falling off because the paper's getting contaminated with dust?
loutent wrote:

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ranted:

Multiply the RPM by the minutes to get the number of strokes you'd have do make by hand to wear the sheet out. Which is better to you?
Anyway, save the worn-out hook sheets to use by hand.
-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --
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I narrowed the problem down, as you suspect, to the quality of the H&L material on the paper. I was buying Norton boxes from the Borg and even had the paper frisbee off the sander on occassion. Once I switched to Mirka H&L disks, I've had zero problems. The Mirka disks are held very securely with the same sander pad, so it's obvious to me it was a material quality issue with the Nortons.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
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wrote:

Uh oh. I use norton from the borg also. So far no problems. SH
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To start off with, I have had much more trouble getting the stick-on disks to stay attached than I ever had with H&L. At the time I was using the cheapie disks and Porter Cable disks on my Craftsman cheapie ROS. I don't think I could go more than about 5 minutes and the disk would start coming off. Any of them, coarse grit, medium grit, or fine grit didn't matter. Also, I could never just change disks to a different grit without having to "throw away" the one I just took off. There was also the problem of storing the old one without contaminating the adhesive. When I "converted" it to H&L things got much much better. Then the motor went TU, but that is another story.
Once in a while I still have a sanding disk that will start to come loose, but I take my air gun and spray the sander's hooks and the disk's loops and I am usually good to go again. This seems to be a problem only when using 220 or 320 grit disks. I don't know why, maybe the extra fine dust just gets into more of the H&L, but is infrequent to say the least.
The only time I have ever had a problem with H&L is when I tried to rip one off too fast and the hook part on the sander tore. My hands weren't exactly clean and it got a little dust under it and wouldn't stay on after that. I bought a replacement at the same orange Borg. I made sure the sander was cleaned of old adhesive, and then cleaned it again, and then cleaned the cleaner off before putting on a new hook pad. I used a spray contact cement (3M Adhesive 90) and it has been fine for over a year now.
Norton's disks work great for me and I like them a lot. I really do think they last 3 times longer than regular disks. The one thing that I don't like about them is the hole pattern. I got the type that will fit 5-hole and 8-hole sanders and they just look weird. Like there is just too much surface area missing. When I go to buy more, I will get the 8-hole only version.
Just yesterday I was sanding for about 15-20 min on a 36" pine round that I bought from the orange Borg. This round had been run through a wide belt sander with a coarse belt and was fairly rough, but using ONLY a 220 grit disk on my ROS it is now as smooth as a baby's butt. Both sides. It wasn't a new pad when I started and I think it may have a few more bf before it is done.
So after all of this verbage, when it comes to the stick-on/H&L war, I will be on the H&L side. Works for me and gives me the ability to change disks without having to throw away the one I just took off.
Wayne
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wrote:

It may have just been a batch problem. Now that I've been thinking about it, I ended up salvaging much of the box by using a wire brush on the fuzzy loops to pick up some of the nap. I had already replaced the hook pad on the sander, thinking I'd melted the hooks off but had the same problem with the new pad, but not quite as frustrating.
I then went with the Mirka brand and haven't felt the desire to try others. Also, this happened about 3 or so years ago with just a box or two of the Norton product - so it could be a hit and miss thing and not a constant quality problem.
--
Owen Lowe and his Fly-by-Night Copper Company
____

"Sure we'll have fascism in America, but it'll come disguised
  Click to see the full signature.
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How about a stiff (but not wire) brush. A toothbrush maybe? Maybe with soap and water?
I don't recall ever needing to do anything more leaborate than brush mine with my hand and blow on it.
--

FF

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