Home Workshops and Alarm Systems

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Just saw some pictures for a great new home workshop in abpw. It occurred to me that I haven't seen much discussion on people protecting their investments in regards to theft.
How are you protecting your standalone shops (aside from your pit bull) from possible theft? How many have actually implemented an alarm system? Of course some of this may depend on locale, but I'd be interested in hearing comments.
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I have just built a new home with a large basement where I have my shop. I had an alarm system installed and have magnetic detectors on my basement windows in addition to an alarm on my sump pump. I also have a motion detector upstairs in addition to the doors and windows covered and a radio control unit incase the power goes out. The system cost $1800 installed and a $22.50 monitoring fee per month.

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magnetic detectors on my basement windows in addition to an alarm on my sump pump.
This is obviously for protection against intruders coming in through the drain tile or storm sewer laterals.
Joe
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Big Joe writes:

Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less fun than a swimming pool. And a problem with a sump pump can create great expense. We had a basement fire started by a fault sump pump this summer. I think the insurance company's total payout had to reach at least $40,000 for cleaning, repair, replacement.
Charlie Self "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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charlie penned...Don't kid yourself. A basement full of water is less fun than a swimming pool.
I figured that's what he meant. I have looked at these in the past, in connection with a shutoff switch for my water softenener, as it empties into the sump. If my sump pump fails, my basement would flood with salt water. Not good.
Joe
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Big Joe responds:

For a fact. That might even be worse than the sloshing mess in my basement after the fire. Good fortune in one respect: one piece of CPVC in the entire copper and cast iron system, and it was not to far from where the fire started. It eventually melted and put the fire mostly out before the fire department was even called.
But, jeez, whadda mess!
Charlie Self "To create man was a quaint and original idea, but to add the sheep was tautology." Mark Twain's Notebook
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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charlie wrote ... Good fortune in one respect: one piece of CPVC in the entire

I had a similar incident with my first car back in the early eighties. My "friend" got sick of waiting for me to say goodbye to a girlfriend, and decided to take my car for a joy ride through the leaf piles in the neighborhood. It was one of those fall days where everyone has raked their leaves into the street for the city to come by and suck up with one of those oversized shop-vacs. He discovered how fun it is to go bouncing off them at 30mph. Later as we were driving home, you guessed it, flames start shooting out from under the hood as I'm heading down the main drag. We start arguing over whether the fire would get worse if I pulled over or if I kept driving. It was a short argument and I pulled over into a parking lot, opened the hood, and woooffff, the fire indeed got worse. I ran to a nearby office building and got the janitor to bring out a bucket of water. When we got back to the car, the fire was out. It burned through the radiator hose and put itself out. A few weeks later as I was attempting to repair the damage in the engine compartment (what would be a lost cause), I inspected the fuel line to find it had nearly burned through. Made me wonder if the engineers designed the radiator hose to burn through quicker.
Joe
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On 28 Jan 2004 21:12:16 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@execpc.com (BIG JOE) wrote:

I hope your "friend" paid for his idiocy.
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Lazarus Long wrote :

Sadly, no. Neither one of us had any money, so I took the bus from then on.
Joe
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My shop is 1/3 of the 3 car garage. I have a full monitored alarm system for the garage. it is part of the system that protects the house but is on a separate "domain", that allows me to arm or disarm it separately from the house. Front door to the shop, rear door to the garage and the sliding door between the garage and shop have contact switches, there is a motion detector in the shop to cover window entry. Alarm company was ADT but is now CPI. Also have heat detector in the shop (dust affects smoke detectors), smoke detector in the garage and in the 2nd floor craft room. these are all part of the same system and monitored.
I sleep better at night and I don't worry about the shop when I am away. In 9 years we have had 2 false alarms and the police response time was under 8 minutes both times.
BRuce
Upscale wrote:

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BRuce

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Upscale asks:

Small dog in the house, shop 75' from bedroom window, #6 shot.
Charlie Self "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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In VA can you shoot them if they are not moving towards you?
BRuce
Charlie Self wrote:

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BRuce

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BRuce responds:

Probably not. But if you yell at a guy and he turns towards you, how is anyone going to know he wasn't coming for you?
In truth, break-in type theft around occupied homes is a tiny problem in that area, though the shurf would have us think otherwise when he's up for re-election or when budget time dawns. Lots of dumbasses breaking into stores, stealing butts, beer and bucks and getting caught the next day, though.
Charlie Self "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like nobody's watching." Satchel Paige
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
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understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-)
BRuce
Charlie Self wrote:

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BRuce

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*MOST* states have a "fleeing felon" statute, which makes any party who commits a felony 'fair game' AS THEY ARE LEAVING THE SCENE.
Simple 'trespassing' is almost always a misdemeanor. as is "Simple B&E". "Larceny in the Night Time" is a different story.
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On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:38:26 +0000, snipped-for-privacy@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote:
|>understood, works about the same way here in NC. We did have a big case |>a few years ago where a guy found a group of teens stealing stuff from |>his garage and shot one of them in the back. Case went to court and he |>was found guilty because they did not pose a threat to him but judge |>gave him a suspended sentence due to circumstances. I wouldn't want the |>aggravation of a court appearance so i would probably wait for them to |>com back for "seconds" and shoot them on the way in. :-) |> | |*MOST* states have a "fleeing felon" statute, which makes any party who |commits a felony 'fair game' AS THEY ARE LEAVING THE SCENE.
Don't try that in Arizona. In fact defense of *property* using deadly force is seldom justified. In the case of arson maybe, otherwise I don't think so.
See: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ArizonaRevisedStatutes.asp?Title 
Also, the law is not what the legislature says it is, it is what the *judge* says it is. For example ARS 13-413 says that you can't be sued for acting lawfully while using force against another. Yet lawsuits are routinely brought by perps and their families and the judges gleefully permit them.
Another example: ARS 13-3102 (F) specifically says that a weapon can be carried concealed in a means of transportation in a holster, scabbard or case designed to carry the weapon. Yet people are routinely charged and convicted for doing just that.
My concealed carry instructor (retired sheriff's weapons training officer) told us that even though I have a permit, if my weapon is in the glove compartment and I have a passenger who doesn't have a permit, they "have immediate access" and can be charged. So my usual passenger SWMBO has her permit too.
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wrote:

I've never heard of my local DA prosecuting anyone for using force against a home invader.
IMHO, you break in to someone's home, you take your chances. Nothing would've happened if the perp hadn't chosen to commit a crime.
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I did. 13-410 (A) (3) is the AZ 'fleeing felon' statute. To wit:
13-410. Justification; use of deadly physical force in law enforcement A. The threatened use of deadly physical force by a person against another is justified pursuant to section 13-409 only if a reasonable person effecting the arrest or preventing the escape would believe the suspect or escapee is: ... 3. A felon who is fleeing from justice or resisting arrest with physical force. You're trying to effect a "citizen's arrest", and/or prevent their escape and fleeing from justice.      Note: the title of the section does _not_ refer to 'sworn law enforcement _officers_'

NO, that is -not- what the law says. it says: 13-413. No civil liability for justified conduct No person in this state shall be subject to civil liability for engaging in conduct otherwise justified pursuant to the provisions of this chapter. Now that leaves OPEN the question of "whether or not" the conduct _was_ "justified pursuant to the provisions of this chapter".
If the conduct _is_ found to be justified, then there is no liability, and thus no damages can be awarded.
*IF*, on the other hand, the conduct is *not* actually "justified", then the party _is_ subject to civil liability.
If the authors of statute mean "a lawsuit on this basis cannot be won", they will state something like "immune from civil lawsuit for any actions taken in the good-faith belief that they were permitted under this section".
Such a statute doesn't _prevent_ a suit from being filed, but the defense merely has to assert that they "Believed in good faith" that their actions were covered, and request summary dismissal therefore. Given such language in statute, the court would have little recourse but _to_ grant the dismissal.

NIT PICK, 13-3102 (F) does -not- say carried "concealed". And -that-, I expect is the issue. 13-3102 (A) (2) forbids a concealed weapon where a person w/o a permit has immediate control and access. 13-3102 (F) is, unfortunately, somewhat ambiguous as to _exactly_ what sets of circumstances render 13-3102 (A) (2) inapplicable.
There is: (A) a 'laundry list' of 'containers' that is specifically enumerated. followed by, (B) a qualifier "in a means of transportation", with a second qualifier, (C) "in a storage compartment... in a means of transportation."
What is *not* clear is the _precise_ relationship among these three things. It _could_ be that: both qualifiers apply -only- to the last 'container' named in the 'laundry list'; that if it is in one of the other containers named, that the qualifications do not apply. the 1st qualifier applies only to the last named 'container' only, and the 2nd qualifier applies to _all_ the named containers. both qualifiers apply to all the named containers. the 1st qualifier applies to the last named container only, and the 2nd qualifier applies _regardless_ of whether it is actually in one of the named containers the 1st qualifier applies to any named container, and the 2nd qualifier applies _regardless_ of whether it is actually in one of the named containers the named container list applies _regardless_ of location, _and_ either qualifier applies _regardless_ of whether it is in one of the named containers, or not
I wouldn't want to guess _which_ of those alternatives the framers of the statute actually 'intended'.

A 'rational' reading of 13-3108 (F) WOULD seem to indicate that -neither- of you need a permit, given that the weapon is in the appropriate container, and _in_the_glovebox_.
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I'm watching this thread with interest because I am just about to move from relatively safe VA (unless charlie's shootin at ya) to San Antonio where bars on the window are the norm.
Montyhp

hearing
anyone
that
stores,
Dance
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Relatively safe? That's what I thought. All of a sudden the little thugs are breaking into houses and cars like crazy here in my little rural slice of VA. Talked to a trooper the other day and he said "Well around here, if we, or the County police don't get them soon, well be picking them up just inside someone's door and putting them in a body bag."
"Montyhp" <montyhp at yahoo.com> wrote in message

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