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Morris Dovey wrote:
> > The lesson: It would appear to be a mistake to make important > decisions based on expected behavior of government - regardless of > whether those expectations involve public safety or energy policy.
I'd say that to put your life style in the hands of others is definitely not prudent.
If memory serves me correctly, the state of Louisiana ranks in the top 3 states in the receipt of federal monies. Has been that way for years.
Maybe there is good reason for it, but it does develop a mind set among the residents that help is on the way.
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

I don't see how you can accuse the federal government of incompetence. Oh sure, mistakes were made, but there will always be mistakes when billions of dollars worth of stuff and people have to move in a short time.
Better to look at what the federal government DID do properly - and by "properly" I mean within the law and according to the requests of local and state officials.
Remember, the feds can't do much of anything unless asked by local functionaries. It's sad that the feds were hamstrung by the stunning incompetence of the local folk. For example, there were enough school busses to take a goodly portion of the people in the dome all the way to Houston (one "stolen" bus made the trip).
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HeyBub wrote:
> I don't see how you can accuse the federal government of incompetence.
Let me spell it out for you: BUSH
He has proven to be unqualified as well as arrogant, and has surrounded himself with like kind.
The systematic dismantling of gov't seems to be their only objective and they are doing a pretty good job of it.
The wealthy get wealthier, the poor get poorer, and the middle class gets screwed.
Ain't life grand?
Lew
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

And yet in your rant in spite of Bush's grave incompetence you failed to provide a single fact.......Reality a bit hard for you? Rod
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Actually, he probably figured everyone read the dialy newspapers.
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Actually, he probably figured everyone read the dialy newspapers.
Yeah, no Bias there.
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The real crying shame is the fact that assistance was offered before the storm to help prevent this kind of human tragity from happening in the first place. Get the people out before the flooding. But uh Oh noooo... said the mayor and the govenor. We got it under control. And speaking of being ready for the storm, I recall a reporter interviewing NO's head guy for emergency management 2 days before the storm it. The reporter asked what have you done to prepair for the storm? The answer was sweet and short. To sum it up, nothing was done. The second question, are you ready? The answer was something like, we hoped this would not happen on our watch.
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Leon wrote:
| Having been through a disaster like that, the people themselves | have to take responsibility in helping them selves. Fema could | have been there moments after the storm and there would still would | have been the devestation and the people with out homes. It was a | natural disaster of epic proportions. Not a whole lot was reported | about the winds of the storm which was the really dangerous part. | More was reported on the water after the storm. Too bad the mayor | let the school buses sit and be flooded. Before hand planing and | prefaration was the real problem.
Lesson: Contingency planning is essential. Lesson: A transportation plan is manditory.
Want to bet that they still haven't identified staging areas for moving supplies in and people out next time around?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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No doubt. I still recall seeing the aerial view of the "hundreds" of school buses sitting under water that could have been used to evacuate. More than enough to have emptied the Superdome so the Super Dome could have remained empty and none of those people would have had to live in that mess.
Next time I bet they make sure the fuel tanks are empty before the storm to guard against contamination when they flood again.
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On Mon, 28 May 2007 23:09:35 GMT, Lew Hodgett

IF ONLY someone were doing a good job of dismantling the U.S.' leviathan federal government back to within its Constitutional boundaries.
--
Chuck Taylor
http://home.hiwaay.net/~taylorc/contact /
  Click to see the full signature.
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HeyBub wrote:
| Remember, the feds can't do much of anything unless asked by local | functionaries. It's sad that the feds were hamstrung by the stunning | incompetence of the local folk. For example, there were enough | school busses to take a goodly portion of the people in the dome | all the way to Houston (one "stolen" bus made the trip).
Lesson: Do not depend on competence of government. Be prepared.
I'm an amateur radio operator. It's not just an interesting hobby - there are associated responsibilities: provide communications in emergency situations; provide communications equipment, on demand, to the federal government; cease operations instantly when radio silence is ordered, etc.
I inquired as to the need for communications volunteers in NO and was told to stay away - that volunteers would just get in the way. I've heard that other people volunteered to take boats, food, and just about everything else you can imagine - and that they were told the same thing.
Lesson: If volunteers are needed, just go. The command and control crap can all be sorted out when the immediate needs have been met. When lives are at stake, it's not about "who's in charge."
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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A good friend of mine from Ft Pierce FL went immediatly after Katrina to try to help out. He's personally been hit badly by hurricanes, and felt the need to help. On the second day, he was told, in the strongest terms, to go home, "that things were under control"..they'd call him. He had water, a couple of generators, some fuel, food, a couple of walkies...
go figure.
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Robatoy wrote:
| A good friend of mine from Ft Pierce FL went immediatly after | Katrina to try to help out. He's personally been hit badly by | hurricanes, and felt the need to help. | On the second day, he was told, in the strongest terms, to go home, | "that things were under control"..they'd call him. | He had water, a couple of generators, some fuel, food, a couple of | walkies...
Lesson: An emergency is, almost by definition, a situation that is not under sufficient control to protect lives and property.
When you next speak with your friend, please pass along my appreciation for his efforts. If I'd gone there - as I should have - I'd have had need of his generator after the second day.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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You may be thankful that you did not go. Those that went with tools and equipment very often left broke and in debt. There were several interviews with those that came to help, not because of the work that they were doing but because of their stolen equipment. Tractor trailers and all.
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Leon wrote:
| You may be thankful that you did not go. Those that went with | tools and equipment very often left broke and in debt. There were | several interviews with those that came to help, not because of | the work that they were doing but because of their stolen | equipment. Tractor trailers and all.
I'm not - and in fact I'm more than a little ashamed that I didn't just load up and go anyway. There was (as in every disaster) a very real need for communications. I'd already had enough experience with tornado and flood operations to know that.
There's always a danger that equipment can "grow legs" and vanish, but my entire station can (almost) easily tuck into a car trunk, and I've discovered that "Danger - High Voltage" stickers work wonders as a deterrent to the casual laying on of hands. :-)
FWIW, I've never had a piece of equipment stolen at an emergency operation site - and I've never owned any that was more precious a human. It was an acceptable risk.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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Good for you Morris, your heart is in the right place.
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Leon wrote:
| your heart is in the right place.
There were a lot of hearts in the right place. Entire /countries/ all over the world were poised to help in any way they could - including some whose help we could not possibly deserve - if we but gave the nod. I doubt the Washington crowd gave their offers a second thought either - but /this/ person won't forget.
If it shook me to see the Mexican military arrive to deliver much-needed humanitarian assistance (Gracias, Amigos y Amigas!), I was proud beyond words of our men and women of the Coast Guard who weren't just ready, but willing, able, and effective.
There were many who opened not only their hearts, but their homes, their places of worship, and their places of business to provide for a virtual tsunami of refugees - and I hope that the people of the gulf coast treasure them and their memory.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto /
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In my quest to find a place to work and grow into, an option to buy a strip-mall with light industrial zoning resulted in having a few meetings with a few 'doers'. The place was simply too big for just lill' ol' me and I wanted to offset my financial commitments. I offered a symbiotic environment to a few small contractors which bolted on to what it is I do. they included a high-end tile merchant and a hardwood flooring installer. We've all know each other for years and felt we had a marvellous opportunity. The property in question had been a water treatment plant for bottled water and some of the stainless tanks were still there, left for scrap. I noticed a little tag dangling from one of the valves which instructed me to get in touch with an agency regarding the 'decommissioning' of installed equipment.
The meetings that ensued could have been straight from a horror movie.... a psychological thriller. Marquis deSade with an MBA and sandals and some training in extortion. He spent an hour with his Powerpoint presentation explaining how incredibly powerful and important he was. He then handed out 10-pound 1000-page questionnaires (ok, I am embellishing a little here) and it went down-hill from there. About an hour later, as I scanned the room, I saw faces looking at me with 'WTF' eyes and it was instantly clear that the meeting had come to an abrupt end. As I snapped my briefcase closed, I heard the simultaneous snapping of the other briefcases, and we were outta there. I thanked the bureaucrat for his time and told him I'd be in touch.
That farktard was going to bury us in bullshit so he could justify his existence. We were there to get going, to get started, roll up sleeves and go nuts...he was there to make sure that wasn't going to happen. Almost a year later, that building is still sitting there... and farktard is wringing his hands looking for somebody who wants to play his game.
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Where was this "almost to be" working environment? Would be bureaucrats aside, it would brighten my day at even the possibility of something like that within travelling distance from where I live.

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7000 sq ft. Asking $ 440,000.00, Sarnia...about 3 hour drive.
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