Home Depot and paint

[sbnjhfty]

Two Home Depot experiences I have to share...

• Paint * I needed a can of black spray paint for a project. I was looking through the cans for flat black. A nearby employee asked if I needed help and I replied no I just need a can of flat black paint as I picked up a can of rustoleum.

Employee: "That's not paint." Me: (looking at the can) "It isn't? What is it?" Employee: "That's protective enamel" Me: "Yeah but why isn't that paint?" Employee: "Well it has enamels and stuff in it. Here's what you want" (handing me a can of Painters Touch) Me: "Well I'll take my chances on the protective enamel"

• Sta Employee: "Contrary to popular belief here I do know what I am doing." Me: "Could you put some stain on this sample so I can see what it looks like" Employee: "Sure" (takes the wood, paints it with stain then puts a hair dryer on it till it is dry) Me: "Uhhhh" Employee: "What?" Me: "Could you put some on this piece and after a bit wipe it off?" Employee: (weird look on her face) "I guess..." (honors my strange request)

[-MIKE-]

I was there, yesterday, looking for a 12' long hardwood transition piece to take the trip hazard out of my friend's 3/4" high seem between the kitchen tile and hardwood living room. All they had were 4' sections. I know I had seen some really long transitions there at one time, so I asked him if they had any thing up around 12 feet.

He said, "No, but all you have to do is use 3 of them." I replied, "Yes, I could, but I hate seems." He said, "Oh, you can just put some wood putty in them and they'll be good." I said, "Yes, for about 2 months until they expand and contract and the wood putty crumbles out." To which he proudly retorted, "That's the way our installers do it, all the time." I chuckled a little and said, "Sir, you just made my point."

[HeyBub]

Did you ever find your transition?

I had the same problem until I found a millworks shop.

Since then, I got a router table and make my own.

[-MIKE-]

That was my choice, sir. I told him I would make one in my shop, but time was the greatest issue. It's an inexpensive condo they're looking to sell yesterday.

[whit3rd]

The classic 'enamel' isn't a paint, it doesn't dry and harden. Rather, it oxidizes and hardens. That can take a week or more, or you can bake it to get a faster resolution.

Spray 'enamel' might be loosely labeled and could be non-classical in this sense, though.

[-MIKE-]

It just sounds to me like a guy who just learned an interesting fact on the job and now wants everyone to know how smart he is. :-)

Sure, tomatoes are fruits, but they are still kept in the vegetable isle.

[Leon]

The classic 'enamel' isn't a paint, it doesn't dry and harden. Rather, it oxidizes and hardens. That can take a week or more, or you can bake it to get a faster resolution.

Spray 'enamel' might be loosely labeled and could be non-classical in this sense, though.

For what it's worth.

Paint is a pretty generic description for many coatings.

Paint: 1.. A liquid mixture, usually of a solid pigment in a liquid vehicle, used as a decorative or protective coating. Enamel:

1. A paint that dries to a hard glossy finish.

[Leon]

A buffoon trying to impress you with what little he knows. Paint is a coating that includes different labeled material types such as enamels and varnishes.

[Leon]

Well he learned something interesting but misapplied what he learned.

Paint is no particular type of material used to cover an object.

Enamel is a paint by definition.

e·nam·el (i-nam'?l) n. 1.. A vitreous, usually opaque, protective or decorative coating baked on metal, glass, or ceramic ware. 2.. An object having such a coating, as in a piece of cloisonné. 3.. A coating that dries to a hard glossy finish: nail enamel. 4.. A paint that dries to a hard glossy finish. 5.. Anatomy. The hard, calcareous substance covering the exposed portion of a tooth

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[nailshooter41]

As always Leon, I appreciate your clarity of thought. The classic alkyd enamels of yore were simple resin (resins of ALL types) finishes that were applied by mixing simple resin compounds with oil based carriers. The same applies today.

Enamels do not oxidize to cure. In simple terms, they outgass the solvent carriers leaving the resins behind. Outgassing triggers some interesting chemical reactions, but degradation of the finish to cure out isn't one of them.

Enamels now cover a larger group than ever before, including some top notch latex paints, not just the classic oil/solvent mixtures.

Sheeesh.

Robert

[Bill]

As long as I'm getting the long version, please explain how latex paint may or may not be an enamel. Before reading all of this I never even pondered whether latex paint had any latex in it! I guess the difference goes back to how the substance outgasses, but I always just thought of enamels as "thick". In any event, thanks (all) for the lesson in paint!

Bill

[Larry Jaques]

Rattle can label: Contains some enamel. Chicken patty label: CAUTION: May contain chicken.

-- Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive. -- Howard Thurman

[Robatoy]

Enamel is not just a compound it is a process as well>>>>>>> hight temp melting of minerals.

[Father Haskell]

Pigmented oil-based varnish.

[willshak]

Yeah, but you need a boat to get to them. :-)

[Robatoy]

...don't DO that!!! (coffee, keyboard, etc...)

[-MIKE-]

Nice!! LMAO! That looked funny to me when I typed it... now I know why.

[nailshooter41]

Viscosity has nothing to do with the label on the paint. Oils can be less viscous than latex paints, but in practical use be a much better finished product when cured out.

IN GENERAL TERMS, enamels usually have harder resins in them that make them more abrasion resistant. This makes them ideal for interior trims, etc. as they will resist scratching and will stand for a lot of cleaning.

The harder resins also made the paint more shiny and (to my understanding) began enamel's association with glossy finish.

I have also understood (although don't find substantiation) that "enamel" was tossed about for paint (coatings) to be associated with "porcelain enamel" which is in the reference that Rob uses it. Enamel was used on bakeware, bath tubs, sinks, tin ware, etc., as a very hard and almost indestructible finish. Porcelain is a TYPE of enamel that is fused by fire or heat.

You should note that the enamel family is quite large. You have enamel on your teeth, too.

Back on paint/coatings.

With the advanced chemistry and solvents that make up today's coatings, enamels can be just about anything in the paint world. For decades, me and mine have associated enamels with hard, glossy (gloss down to satin) finishes knowing that less gloss (less resins) means less practical wear.

Yet, as here

can see enamel "flat" paint. All the leading manufacturers have them now. No matter what they say though, they do have a bit more sheen than a true flat.

These flat enamels are great for walls in high use areas that need to be cleaned. I have found them easy to apply and very abrasion resistant. It really blurs the line between the finishes of "eggshell" latex, and flat enamel latex for me.

As far as "latex" being in latex paint, the first paragraph from an eminently credible source says it all:

[Leon]

Snippage of very good information

easy to see why paint manufacturers chose "latex paint" over "rubber paint", it simply sounds more expensive. ;~)

Thinking back to the early 70's I recall Glidden latex paint being quite thick. A friend that managed a Glidden store opened a gallon of "cheese" colored paint and scooped out a hunk of the paint with a putty knife, yes it was that thick. He cut that scoop up in to bite sized slices on a paper plate and put some crackers around the "cheese", and then stood guard to make sure no one took any samples. The occasion was an open house thing to demonstrate the paint that would not drip.

[whit3rd]

I think 'enamel' originally was jewelry items, fired colored glass on copper and the like. Porcelain enamel on steel has been common since Norman Bel Geddes designed the first whiteware kitchen stove (1932).

To get an enamel-like paint, you need it to self-level, i.e. the mixture has to pull its surface flat by surface tension. That means the base has to be hard, because you can't toss lots of solid pigment particles in; like gravel, they'd prevent the flattening. It also means you usually have long cure times or need to bake the product to keep the base fluid.

Classic paint is a three-component mixture: a pigment (like burnt umber) and a base (gummy oil of some kind), and a thinner (turpentine). It's hard because the pigment particles are hard, flexible because the base is stretchy, and goes on liquid because the thinner (which evaporates) softened or dissolved the glue-like base.

Enamel, though, needs a hard base, usually an alkyd or epoxy. Those don't dissolve, you dissolve the precursor compounds instead and apply them, then they cure chemically. The pigment has to be either loosely packed or controlled-shape particles, if it is to support the self- leveling, and it's doubtful that enamel has as much pigment as paint does.