Home Depot 1/4" Lag Screw

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That depends on the store. I've got a couple of _very_good_ hardware stores that happen to be part of the ACE co-op nearby. And a first class one that joined up with TruValue. They've got people that -know- what they're talking about, _and_ carry a lot of stuff that is not the Ace/TruValue house label.
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Steve wrote:

What does a purchasing co-op have to do with the quality of an individual store?
Lew
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I first twisted off lag screws starting in 1979. Lag screws in general are not strong unless you get stainless steel.
IIRC I try to give to lag screws a polit hole size the size of the body or a bit larger.
Even a "hardened" square drive #14 screw which is .246" thread diameter requires a larger 5/32" pilot hole in soft woods.
Additionally you do not want to bottom out a lag screw, the point on the end helps guide not pull the screw into the wood.
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I find it less trouble to just use the correct sized pilot hole.
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My understanding is that large Mormon families buy vaseline by the pallet. Generic, of course.
--
EA

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Stormin Mormon wrote:

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but you can't make them THINK"
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On 12/16/2009 07:53 AM, Leon wrote:

That seems odd.
For optimum strength in softwood, you want the pilot hole to be about 0.7 times the diameter of the root diameter of the screw. (0.9x in hardwood--or more particularly for wood with a specific gravity greater than 0.6) The clearance hole should be big enough that the threads don't engage, of course.
The above is from:
http://www.awc.org/pdf/NDSCommentaryCompressed/Part11WoodScrewspp133to139.pdf
Chris
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I did not look and don't doubt your findings but if fully embedded threads are not going to hold, a tight hole is not going to be any better. IMHO making the pilot hole smaller will crush the wood fibers when the screw goes in and in turn would weaken the part that the threads cut into. Then add to that the unnessary extra torque to properly seat the screw which IMHO would increase the chance of breakage.
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Well, it seems to me that compression would strengthen the material surrounding the lag threads. Think roll tapping (or thread forming) vs cut tapping, and/or think of a simple nail that compresses wood fibers. Roll tapping sposedly forms a stronger thread than cut tapping -- not perfectly analogous here, but it does sort of illustrate the benefit and strength of displaced material.
The Q is: what is the best overall compromise? In soft wood, I would go .010 smaller than root diameter, just to guarantee full thread engagement, esp. with iffy drilling. Which would only be .005 worth of compression. But, appaently in hard wood, you don't even want full engagement! Go figger....
The japanese dispensed with threads altogether, and just used dowels/pins/pegs. In the case, say, of a corner fence post, if you put snug-ish dowels in X, Y, and Z (per joint), the joint would be fully constrained. If all dowel holes were made through holes, the dowels could be easily removed. Actually, I think you could just as well dispense with the Z dowel, as each dowel effectively constrains 2 dimensions.
Don't know how practical this is, but it does have its own elegance. I heard recently about japanese/tibetan structures fastened like this, still standing after centuries -- nary a thread in sight. Of course, gravity helps in these cases, as well.
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Existential Angst wrote:

They needed all the metal to make swords for lopping the heads off of their enemies.
TDD
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Chris Friesen wrote:

Cool, thanks Chris, that'll save me having to look up charts and deciding which one is the correct value next time!
Jon
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This isn't exactly news to anyone who's been involved in home repair for any length of time, you know.
You can get fasteners of significantly better quality, at a lower price, from any real hardware store. The category of real hardware stores includes: - Ace - Tru-Value - Do-it-Best - any hardware store with worn wooden floors and a little bell on the front door that tinkles when you walk in, where any employees under the age of forty are the owner's grandchildren; sadly, these places are getting harder and harder to find.
This category does *not* include - Home Depot - Lowe's - Menards - Hechinger's and similar places.
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On Dec 16, 7:57am, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

I grew up in a small town in Southern Oklahoma. We had a "real" hardware store on Main Street. Locally owned, at least 3 generations. Everybody had gone to school with at least one of the Stolfa kids. Didn't look like much from the front. When you walked in the front door, it had one of those little "tinkle" bells on a spring at the top. Hardwood floors about 100 years old that creaked as you walked across them. You could get help, advise (and you could rely on it being accurate), or just opinions about everything from the wether to the next local or college football game. The smell varied as you walked to different parts of the store; a chemical-fertilizer smell was predominant, with paint and varnish in one corner, a greasy- oily-gasoline smell over by the lawnmowers and garden machinery. They had some of everything, nuts and bolts to gaskets for pressure cookers, I even bought asbestos sheets to fix a space heater. I asked one of the guys once if they had a molasses gate, and without a blink, he asked "what size do you need?".
Then WalMart came to town. The manager complained that the high quality cutlery he carried cost more from his distributor than the most expensive stuff WalMart carried at retail. They just couldn't compete, and when WallyWorld put in a Super Store, it was the final nail in the coffin. I really hated to see them go. This was repeated in several other locally owned businesses, from stationary stores, to small sporting goods, to auto parts. We had a family-owned auto repair shop. We finally closed after almost 20 years. The folks that bought us out made it for another 3 years.
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On Dec 16, 10:29am, "&amp;amp;amp;#39;lektric dan"

So who is to "blame"? Walmart or the consumers who demanded a cheaper knife?
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Snip

So who is to "blame"? Walmart or the consumers who demanded a cheaper knife?
Who is to blame, the store that lost it's business is to blame. Blaming others has never been a good excuse for why a business fails. Again I mention, near me an old hardware store with lots of big competition, they beat the competition prices and service, and they are constantly expanding. Competing does not just mean cheaper. Service goes a long way and if the store does not provide a compeditive alternative attraction they will go under.
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I responded to Doug on a similar note. The old country hardware stores can be good if the owners know how to run a business compeditively. I have a hardware store near me that is thriving, with 3 big box stores within 10 minutes drive, and they beat the big box prices.
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On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 00:21:45 -0800, "Jon Danniken"

Pilot hole should be 3/16"
Regards,
Tom Watson http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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Any real hardware store.
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wrote:

I keep seeing this answer.... what does that mean exactly? Not piling on you but what exactly defines a "real" hardware store, and does that guarantee that the "real" hardware store will also not have crap?
MeFeeleys is generally considered a reputable source for fasteners, I agree for wood screws and graded nuts and bolts however I have bought some pretty cheesy ungraded machine screws from McFeeleys, I have had several break from 100 pack box.
I also agree that the big box chains are probably not the best source for screws but if you buy name brand screws from those stores you are going to get better quality. While I steer away from prepackaged plastic bags of screws from those type stores I have never had a problem with larger bolts and lag screws providing they had proper sized pilot screws.
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wrote:

McFeely's may be a great source, but sometimes you need fasteners NOW. Not tomorrow.
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