High end cabinets - pocket holes or M&T?????

[Swingman]

... "more specifically" the OP excluded face frames from the discussion in the very first post in the thread.

So much for "read these posts.", eh.

[Gregg Germain]

: yes, but more specifically, he asked about M&T and pocket holes. from : there the posts naturally went to doors and face frames (as i'm sure : it was intended to do).

He started out with a very general question about high end cabinets. it wasn't until the bottom of his post that he mentioned face frames.

So I felt I wasn't violating the laws of the Universe to discuss how high end carcasses are put together.

This seems to both you....

--- Gregg "Improvise, adapt, overcome." [e-mail] Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Phone: [phone]

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[RemodGuy]

My first instinct when i hear "cabinets" is kitchen/bath. "furniture" would lead me to dressers and hutches. Regardless, are you saying that dovetails can be used to attack face frames to boxes or sides to backs, etc? If so, please describe the process, as i have never seen an example.

Thanks

[Lazarus Long]

The steel may not break with that shear load but don't you think the wood around it would give way instead, resulting in a failure anyway?

[Gregg Germain]

RemodGuy wrote: : My first instinct when i hear "cabinets" is kitchen/bath. "furniture" : would lead me to dressers and hutches.

You are welcome to your instincts, but I don't share them.

The terms "cabinetry" and "cabinetmaker" are quite often used with regard to fine furniture. I would imagine it's not a stretch to think that cabinetmakers make...well...cabinets.

Perhaps you disagree.

: Regardless, are you saying : that dovetails can be used to attack face frames to boxes or sides to : backs, etc?

;^) No, although I don't approach my cabinetmaking with a high level of violence ;^)

Neither am I saying one would *attach* face frames to boxes, or sides to backs, using dovetail joints.

Nor have I ever said it. Or even implied it, much less ever thought of doing it.

: Thanks

You are entirely welcome.

--- Gregg

My woodworking projects:

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

FAQ with photos:

"Improvise, adapt, overcome." [e-mail] Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Phone: [phone]

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[Morris Dovey]

If we apply enough force we can probably break about anything. There's not much point in considering forces capable of breaking the joined pieces themselves.

I'm thinking that it has to be considerably more difficult to pull a screw out sideways than out straight; and that (if you consider the combined dimensions of the screw shafts) 1/8" by

1/4" (two screws) or 1/8" by 3/8" (three screws) of steel would probably be less prone to damage from shearing forces than an appropriately sized tenon.

The racking situation might be slightly different, since the applied forces will tend to pull the screws straight out, with the forces applied to the screws in a very unbalanced fashion. My guess is that a well-fit and well-glued tenon /might/ provide an advantage over the pocket screws for this kind of stress.

I'm not an expert. If anyone has any authoratative information on this, I'd really appreciate if you jumped in now.

[gabriel]

Well, you can put all the shear you want on a high-quality bolt, but what's going to fail is the wood itself (assuming the bolt was put in correctly).

The glue in a glue joint is stronger than the wood, so the issue is the same. I would even say that a M&T joint would resist _more_ shear force than wood bolted together because there is more wood surface glued together (and therefore, more wood to break apart before failure).

[Mike Hide]

Hell these things are just kitchen cabinets nothing special, they have been making the same old thing for the last 50 years just dressing then up here or there or perhaps calling them "european" or the like . just buy a used double doweling machine and you can do the joints in a complete kitchen in a day . mjh