High effciency motors

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On 8/1/2015 5:07 PM, dpb wrote:

It is odd how that falls in place to cause a problem, unless the detents in the switch it self prematurely wear out because of the rocking motion of the keys on the lock.
The ignition lock turns more freely out of the steering column than when mounted in the column. You feel more resistance when it is all assembled properly.
On GM vehicles what you put the key in is the ignition "lock". On the opposite end of the lock was a rack and pinion and rod. The gear on the lock moved the rack and rod back and forth inside and along part of the length of the steering column. The end of that rod connected to the ignition switch. It may not actually be the part you see, the lock, that is the problem.
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On 08/01/2015 5:44 PM, Leon wrote: ...

Has to be; that's what initiates the motion however the internals are arranged--unless something comes loose internally and that would see to have no real bearing on the weight and what is, by all press reports, "turning off" the ignition. Then again, the press certainly isn't an engineering root-cause analysis.
I'm still on GM's side on this one basically as being the fault of the operator for doing something silly.
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On 8/1/2015 7:47 PM, dpb wrote:

That was where I was going with that. We did sell ignition switches, rack assemblies, and locks way back when due to something wearing out. The expensive part was the labor and it was just as easy to replace everything while in there. There were about 5 separate pieces that could all contribute to the sloppiness of the works. I'm thinking a lot of it has to do with how much less tolerance our society has for things wearing out these days and how happy attorneys are to go after any thing that moves.
and that would see to

Well I will agree that GM is probably not totally at fault. One should know how to safely control a vehicle if the engine dies, whether it be from a bad switch/lock or running out of fuel.
But having said that GM is not innocent on countless other things that they could have easily corrected over the years but chose not to do so. Take part number 10000669 for instance. This was a reserve vacuum tank that served to assist opening ventilation diverted motors. It looked like a black plastic soft ball sized ball with vacuum tubes running to it. We sold hundreds per year. It had no moving parts and yet went bad because of the cheapness of the materials. Ford, OTOH used what appeared to be a black tin can. That part literally looked like it may originally have been used to hold a vegetable in your pantry. You could have opened it with a kitchen can opener.
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@swbelldotnet says...

It's not just "safely controlling the vehicle". When the switch is turned off the airbags are turned off.
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On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 11:27:26 -0400, "J. Clarke"

Given than airbags, themselves, are a source of potential (and real) law suits, it's reasonable to turn them off when the vehicle is off. The fault still lies with the reason it's off.
I had a car that needed to be restarted occasionally (it took *many* returns to the shop before they finally found the real problem). To do it, it first had to be turned to the "off" position, which locked the steering wheel. Ugly situations followed. Similarly, several models lock the steering wheel when shifted out of "drive". Not so good when the engine dies (coasting off the road may not be an option).
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On 8/2/2015 10:27 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

Yeah, but if you can control the vehicle, maybe you don't need the air bags and air bags are something new, not too many years ago not all vehicles had them.
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@swbelldotnet says...

Irrelevant--if the airbag is off because the ignition switch turned itself off, that's a bad situation.
Look, you can argue coulda-shoulda-woulda all you want to, the bottom line is that the damned switch should stay on until somebody intentionally turns it off.
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On 8/2/2015 11:35 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

It could be if there is an accident but not if no accident.

Well shit happens, and only one thing in this world is perfect.
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@swbelldotnet says...

If someone you care about ends up dead as a result of this, get back to us on how excusable GM's incompetence is.
Why are you defending them, anyway, is it a knee-jerk reaction of a former employee or something?
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On 8/2/2015 5:01 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

I'm not defending them at all. I'm just saying that of all the accidents that have been blamed on the ignition switch many turn out to not be related to the switch. I assure you many many more people have had accidents that were not caused by the switch however that does not prevent an attorney from going after every hint of an accident. I am clueless of how many are actually caused by the switch compared to how many had nothing to do with the switch but I would bet you the later overwhelms the former. You are simply buying into the hype. I personally dealt with a lot of these type cases for most of the 80's. Every time there was an accident after a publicized recall, attorneys, insurance companies, and factory reps had to inspect the vehicle before any repairs were made by our dealership. Very seldom did that amount to anything other than the insurance company paying for the repair.
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@swbelldotnet says...

What are you on about? I never said anything about quantity of accidents. If ONE person gets dead as that result of this piece of shit it's TOO DAMNED MANY.
You're starting to sound like the guy at Ford who figured that not enough people would get killed when Pintos blew up for it to be worth fixing the design.
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On 8/3/2015 5:45 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

Then I advise you to stop driving any vehicle from this point on and stay in doors. There is hardly a vehicle out there that does not have the potential to have an accident for one reason or another.
Before you know it there will be recalls on crash avoidance systems, lane change systems, and back up cameras because the drivers ignored the warnings.
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@swbelldotnet says...

Please, PLEASE buy a Pinto and remove the brake lights.
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On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 12:35:28 -0400, "J. Clarke"

My Ranger is one of the vehicles affected, it is the only the passenger side. There is a switch to turn it off and I have. Now mind that I have gotten a letter from Ford advising me of the recall (waiting for the parts to be available) but make no mention that you should turn it off. No doubt more lawyer fodder for those injured by shrapnel.
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My Mom and my niece both have affected cars. My niece was told (after they inspected the car to confirm it was under the recall) that they had turned off the airbag. My Mom was not. Both Corollas, both at the same dealership, altho about a month apart.
John
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@hotmail.com says...

Huh? We're talking about the craptastic GM ignition switch that turns itself off if you have too many keys on your keychain. I don't think a Ford Ranger has a GM ignition switch.
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On 8/2/2015 4:59 PM, J. Clarke wrote:

HUH, but you were the one whining about the air bags not working if the ignition switch turns off. Air bag problems are not unique to an ignition switch problem.
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@swbelldotnet says...

No, but they are part of the reason that it's a problem.
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On 8/3/2015 5:46 AM, J. Clarke wrote:

Or could be a problem. This does not affect every switch, this is a precautionary safety recall to replace the switch whether it is defective or not.
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On Sun, 2 Aug 2015 17:59:39 -0400, "J. Clarke"

So the conversation drifts a bit and you get your panties all in a bunch?
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