HF Multifunction tool

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On 5/10/2009 2:37 PM HeyBub spake thus:

Totally disagree with that (about monopolies being good); more on this below.
But regarding that law class, it reminds me of my days in business school. One of the best classes I ever took was business law. Now, you know my political beliefs: well to the left of center. The class was taught by an older conservative Mormon rancher type. Yet it turned out to be one of the best classes I took the entire time I was in school there (NAU in Flagstaff). The guy was very fair-minded, and covered all the basics (contract law, basic legal concepts, etc.) very clearly.

This, of course, elides many cases of malicious malfeasance attributable to the likes of Standard Oil and other monopolies. In general, monopolies are things to be avoided wherever possible; only a few cases, among them ones you listed above, are good candidates for manageable monopolies.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Would you consider the US Government a monopoly? I also love the fact the US Government taxes the Oil Companies to the extreme of making more off a gallon of gas then the outfit that produces it, just for the opportunity to do business in this country. Does anyone know what the US averages in dollars collected per year in TAXES? Just curious.
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On 5/10/2009 4:19 PM evodawg spake thus:

The U.S. government a monopoly? No, it's a government.
You are aware, aren't you, that gas taxes are much higher in Yurp?
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

statement implies we should be more like Europe?
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wrote:

I suspect someone, somewhere has compiled it. But maybe not. If you include federal, all state, and all local taxing authorities, that'd be a mighty long list.
Wonder what percentage of the GDP that total might be. A tad more than your income tax bracket, I'd warrant.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. Robert A. Heinlein
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Somebody asked:

I still remember the guy who owned the hobby I hung out at when I was a kid bitching about the amount of taxes levied on a loaf of bread as well as all the taxes collected by government in total.
At that point in time, about 1950, all taxes collected by Federal, State and Local agencies were about 35%-37% of GDP.
60 years later, it is still about 35%-37% of GDP.
Doesn't seem to make any difference whether it is "The tax and spend liberals" or "The less government conservatives" that are in power.
The percentage of GDP spent remains pretty much the same, it's just what it gets spent on that changes.
Lew
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Tom Veatch wrote:

If anyone is actually interested in such information, DAGS on "US total tax burden". One I find interesting is http://www.statemaster.com/index.php . Go for it.     mahalo,     jo4hn
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

I agree. Standard Oil's methods of putting competitors out of business was despicable.
But it was the COMPETITION that suffered from Standard Oil's practices - not the average consumer. The consumer benefited enormously.
To be more current, consider Microsoft's battle in Europe over imbedding multi-media code within the operating system. Did the consumer complain? Absolutely not! The whole thing was brought to the courts by RealPlayer (they tried the same thing in the U.S.). So, as a result of the EU court decisions, Microsoft offered a version of XP without MediaPlayer.
I think Microsoft sold about eight copies.
My point is that railing against monopolies is almost never based on consumer needs - it's the competitors that are stirring up the folk.
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You might enjoy "The Tycoons" about Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, and Gould.
(Amazon.com product link shortened)42003229&sr=8-11
It paints Rockefeller and Gould in a better than usual light. Morgan and Carnegie in worse. Anyway, it's well written and paints a fascinating picture of a key time in US history. -- Doug
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HeyBub wrote:

My pet peeve in that regard is the lawsuit that resulted in the breakup of AT&T, the main effect of which was to end Bell Labs, one of the finest research organizations that ever existed.
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On Sun, 10 May 2009 16:37:52 -0500, HeyBub wrote:

I'll have to disagree in part with that blanket statement. For about the 1st 30 years of my life, I lived where electricity was a municipal utility. Worked fine. I now live where Avista, formerly Washington Water and Power, has a monopoly. Every year or two they go before the PUC and claim they have to raise rates. Shortly after they get their way, they issue a stockholder report proclaiming record profits.
I'll take the government owned electric company every time.
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On 5/10/2009 7:29 PM Larry Blanchard spake thus:

Amen. Public power means at least *some* public control of utility rates and policies. (As opposed to *none* over private utilities--except very indirectly, through a PUC or whatever.)
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Some moron here decided that we needed competition in the electric power industry, so the power company no longer deals directly with the end user, instead they deal with a middleman who deals with the end user. The result, of course, has been that the middleman puts a markup on the price that the company that owns the wires and generators charges, and the consumer takes it in the ass.
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Unfortunately, it's been abused beyond belief. What was once copyrighted for 15 yrs has now been extended to 75 yrs BEYOND the originator's death. Europe has just recently passed similar legislation. This all because the distribution industry has greased pol palms. I'm not sure about latest patent laws.
Fortunately, China laughs at such nonsense and will disregard it to provide an equal, even if sometimes lesser quality, product. Hence, Harbor Freight.
Another thing, is the quality one expects always there. One of the most common items procured from the stores of a govt lab I worked at was the right angle gear-head of the German made Bosch 4-1/2" high speed grinder. Apparently, a very popular tool with a high failure rate. I have one and have never had to replace it, but I also do not use it often, so it has little wear.
Another example of China made stuff I've been happy with is a hand-held power bandsaw. Milwaukee wants almost $400. I got mine for $140. Dual speed and works great. The blades were junk, but Milwaukee blades fit perfectly. I've also had a 2-1/2 ton floor jack and jack stands made in China that were superior to similar US made items costing three times as much.
I learned a long time ago that tools should be judged on an individual basis. You cannot assume anything based on a brand name or country of origin.
nb
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I would like to add the crown jewel--metalworking horizontal/vertical bandsaw for something like $150 or so. They are sold under multiple names being EXACTLY the same saw less different color and nametag. The HF one is at least three times cheaper than a closest competitor and it works like a charm. I can not count how many tons of various metals I cut with mine during those several years I owe it. Yes, original blades are junk but even with a cheap Rigid brand one from Home Depot it runs like Energizer Bunny... It is simply an outstanding tool.
The other one is a Chinese clone of a Chinese (zic!) welder. There is a bunch of those that are only differ in color and name. Mine is Everlast Super200P. I paid for it $800 and it does almost everything that $3,000 Miller Dynasty 200DX does and it has better duty cycle. It can even do plasma cutting however I use another Chinese clone of Chinese Riland, Cut60D for plasma. I paid $400 for mine and it is 60A. Super200P does AC/DC TIG, Stick and it does it very well. It is simply a pleasure to weld with "difficult to run" 5P aka 6010 electrodes; they burn like matches with 90% Arc Force...
Yes, most of Chinese stuff brought here is crap. But there are also some jewels at unbelievable prices. And one can find almost all those Husky etc. "brand" tools at HF under generic Chinese name. Not similar ones but EXACTLY the same tools.
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I have and use the dremel - I picked it after testing the Fein and others. It was the right power for my 11 year old twins and worked well. I have a wide array of attachments. they kids really like it for doing modeling work.
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I just picked one up today with a coupon ($35). Coupons are supposedly unique but give it a try worst they can say is "already used"
http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/displayCoupon.do?week=1909&campaign=RetailB&page=coupon1.html&single=true&r=4705_61704&cust=78026692342&keycode=0000
or
http://tinyurl.com/o8nwzn
If you sign up on their website you'll get coupons at least once a week. I seem to get a 20% any 1 item at least once per month. Latest Wood Magazine has a 15% off coupon for HF.
The tool flange has rings where the attachment bolts up and a washer with swirled grooves in it. No pins like on the Dremel I saw in the Borg. If it works half as good as the Dremel I tried at the Borg it is worth the $35. If not I'll take it back.
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Limp Arbor wrote:

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/common/displayCoupon.do?week 09&campaign=RetailB&page=coupon1.html&single=true&rG05_61704&custx026692342&keycode00
Worked for me, got mine this afternoon. I'll check it out and report back.
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-MIKE- wrote:

Don't leave it on the nightstand.
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On Thu, 07 May 2009 20:22:26 -0500, TD Driver

I have a Dremmel. I used it yesterday with a (router-like base) attachment that made it easy to cut mortises in a door edge and jamb. After drawing tracing the plates, I freehand the cutter close to the pencil line, then cleaned it up with a sharp chisel. Really nice tool, but I have not tried other brands.
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