Help to Match a Finish

[Ken Johnsen]

Just completed new birch ply base cabinets for a kitchen in a rental apartment. I'd like them to match the original top cabinets that are still in place.

I've tried several shades of minwax stains with both varnish and polyurethane as a protective coat. I think I have the right "darkness" but I'm having trouble matching the "orange" color of the original cabinets.

Could the orange tone be due to aging? The original cabinets are 40 years old. Could I sand the original and recoat?

Any thoughts or suggestions would be aprreciated

TIA

Ken

[mike]

[Preston Andreas]

More than likely, it is the finish that has ambered over the years. The wood too, may have darkened some over time. If you strip it, you may find the original cabinets darker than the new cabinets and you will still have some matching to do. In the past, I have used dyes to correct for color. You might try something like -

can add a little to the stain for the new cabinets to match the old cabinets.

[Mike G]

As already suggested aniline dyes are one approach as is appropriately colored pigments or appropriately based artist colors.

[Stewart Schooley]

Ken,

Read the thread "Water based glaze" that started on 7-28-03. As long as you are using an oil based final finish, a glaze/toner should do the trick for you.

One real advantage is that you can test your glaze/toner in a small area on the cabinet and if it isn't good enough, wipe it off with paint thinner and a rag and then adjust your color and try again.

Stewart

Ken Johnsen wrote:

[Ken Johnsen]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. I'm going to look into both the aniline dyes and glaze

[Mike G]

This is just a thought and not a condemnation of glazes so don't no one get a bent out of shape.

Glazes and toners have their place and are handy techniques to be able to do. They are especially useful for blending heart and sap wood and handling miss matched grain (as anyone who has ever stripped a factory produced cherry piece can attest to). They also work well as a way to accent certain aspects of a piece or to handle difficult to stain woods..

However, the process of sandwiching color between layers of finish also, and there is no way around it, obscures the grain of the wood to one extent or another. It will rob it of most of the sense of depth you can get if there is nothing between the top of the finish and the wood.

Where, as probably true in this case (red oak) or at least should be, none of the above is applicable an aniline dye is probably a much better choice. Anilines, which soak into the cells of the wood rather then sitting on top of them, work wonderfully at enhancing grain and adding to the sense of depth.

[Stewart Schooley]

Mike,

I wouldn't argue with anything you said. However, the posts I responded to were unique because Ken wanted to match new work to old and Todd wanted to experiment. In both cases I felt that a toner/glaze would work.

Another area where they are helpful is in restoration work when scratxches, knicks, and veneer chips have to be repaired and colored. A thin glaze/toner can help integrate the repair color with the rest of the color.

Stewart

[Baron]

Mike G., With all due respect, I strongly disagree with your conclusion that "the process of sandwiching color between layers of finish also, and there is no way around it, obscures the grain of the wood to one extent or another." It is pretty standard to use toners, whether they be lacquer or shellac based, in finishing and refinishing. The toners I am referring to do not use pigments but rather dyes. While aniline dye is a misnomer as they are no longer used, the name has stuck around. The same dyes are in toners. They are completely transparent and only impart color, not detectable opacity. In fact, this technique tends to make the finish look more like stained glass rather than wood with mud on it. It is also easier to sneak up on a color with toners rather than with a stain applied directly to wood. For obvious reasons, toners are much more reversible. For grain enhancement, a little oil on the wood does the trick although shellac has some of the same refractive index properties. Shellac doesn't soak into the wood nearly as much as an oil so the effect with shellac is not nearly as dramatic. I agree with your comment with respect to glazes but not toners.

[Mike G]

Ok, fair enough, I stand corrected on the toner. Good information.

I also do not have a problem with oil as a grain enhancer. I, myself, don't like to use it on light wood , I think it yellows to much, kind of looks like a dog pissed on it.. My preference is a light application of aniline dye matched as closely as possible to the woods own tone. Much as you describe the toner application. On as dark wood, such as walnut, it's a deferent story.

One question though. If a dye is used as a toner what fixes it on the non pours finish undercoat?

[Baron]

The dye is dissolved in the lacquer, shellac, etc. Vendors formulate different toners to be compatible with their different lines of finishes. Typically, the toner burns into the previous layer just like applying a clear coat of shellac, lacquer, etc. If the toner is in something that is not an evaporative finish, like a varnish, then it must be applied within a time window or the previous film must be allowed to cure and then be roughened so there will be a good mechanical hold. Typically, I make my own toners just by adding TransTints to shellac and then either spraying or brushing. I agree you on the light versus dark wood and oil.

"Mike G" wrote in message news:- [e-mail]...

[Mike G]

Thank you

Take care