HELP! Confusion of dust collectors

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mac davis wrote:

I was "making my rounds" one Saturday and stopped at a local HVAC contractor. This contractor has a display set up in the back of their shop that consists of a large heavy metal container with no top and partially open on the front. A nice man with a big truck comes each week and empties it so the contractor can display new items for the following week.
Anyways, this week there on display were two brand new blowers. One was sitting atop a tangled pile of black iron pipe and the other was poised next to it and off to the left slightly a kilter so as to draw your eye to it. I don't know who set up this display but it certainly caught my eye.
Some people have called this "dumpster diving". This isn't dumpster diving as they were both there on top by the front of the opening. I prefer to call it "dumpster reaching".
UA100
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My attempt at getting a blower for naught didn't work, so I bought one on Ebay, plus a variable speed switch (from "greatsam" total $125). The squirrel cage fan turned out about 5 times bigger than I had expected, but it moves a lot of air! There was (hopefully still is) a site decribing my box, but I lost the url. My wooden box is 15Wx24Lx20H, and has dual filters on each side (20x24, one each regular=cheap and Filtrete=expensive). It works beautifully, but it is big.
--
Best regards
Han
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big is what I'm going for, regardless of what size blower I find.. I need to build a new router table, so I'll make the filter box at least 36" high and 48" wide..
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Did a Google search: I got something like this from this seller, plus the variable speed switch from him. He had great support when the wiring instructions weren't clear to me: <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&categoryC555&item4335921047&rd=1 (sorry about the wrap) I have no affiliation with this guy other than as a satisfied customer.
--
Best regards
Han
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No dust sparkling through the sunlight in my shop, either, but then again, I work in the basement.
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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Mac,
Before you do anything irreversible, I recommend that you spend some time on Bill Pentz's web site at:
    http://billpentz.com//woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm
I know the link contains the word "cyclone", but there is much more information there than just about cyclones.
Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA
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wrote:

thanks, Tom.. I'll check it out..
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You might give a hint as to what you want it for.
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read it and was tired of it.. *g*
I'm getting back into wood working after a lot of years away from it.. working in a 2 car garage that is still shared with wife & laundry machines, so I have about 2/3 of it..
no heavy stuff yet like jointer or planer, and won't be adding them for quite a while.. (we hope to sell the house and move to a more rural area)
I use 1 RAS, CMS, shopsmith mostly for drilling and routing, and small power tools like drills, biscuit jointer, etc..
Besides 2 shop vacs, I'm not using any DC at all.. I did just get the old portable swamp cooler out of the shed and I run it (blowing out the garage door) when ever I'm making dust...
If I add a jointer or planer, I'll also add a cyclone type separator to the system.. right now, even the space a DC takes up is a sacrifice..
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but... I find my DC almost useless on my TS and CMS. It really only works well on my router table, jointer, and planner. If you don't have those tools, I think you would be wasting your space and money on a DC. (I don't know about a RAS, as I don't have one) On the whole, I find my air cleaner a much better investment than my DC.
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I've tried using the shop vac and building hoods and stuff for the RAS and CMS and they just seem to spread the mess...
It's amazing how much a good shop vac near the router bit on the SS (think drill press) keeps the dust and chips down, so I'm thinking a DC would really work well there... Kind of a new experience, TRYING to buy something that I know sucks.. lol The RAS is a really tough one, because something that works at all when you 1st turn it on becomes almost useless as soon as you slide the saw away from it on a cut..
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A DC moves much larger volumes of air, at somewhat slower speeds, than a shop vac. If your saw(s) can direct any portion of their chips/dust towards a hood, or a plenum, then the DC will/should be a big improvement.
CMS is a challenge, however, unless you can move LOTS of air. The tool wasn't really designed for chip collection, and I don't know how it could be seriously changed for that, without turning into a RAS. There's a fellow posts here, handle of Rumpty, who seems to be the world's RAS expert. I'd bet a Google search would dig up some info.
Just changing the pitch and volume of the scream of the shopvac is a MAJOR improvement in my enjoyment of the hobby.
YMMV
Patriarch
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We had a pro shop with several dust collectors dedicated to tools and each tool requires specific solutions. I found a 3 HP dust collector wasn't enough for the table saw. We tried everything. The final solution was actually a smaller dust collector and using an overhead guard to cover the blade. We kept thinking bigger is better but found that smarter wins. The chop saw was an adventure in itself. It took months to get it right. max

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max wrote:

I'm interested in what the "right" solution was. Care to share? ;-)
-- Mark
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We wound up building a box around the back of the saw and the sides come forward to the front fences on both sides. At the front to the right and left of the saw are two sliding doors. When the saw is at 90 degrees the doors are closed, when the saw is set for miters we have to move the doors to clear the saw. We are using a 2 horsepower DC with a hose to the box and a hose under the table. It collects almost everything. We can use this saw for hours without dust escaping. max

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OK. The RAS, the CMS, the biscuit jointer, the routing and drill press functions all produce larger chips, as well as 'fines'. The chips are what messes up the shop, and have to be dragged out and dumped regularly. The 'fines' are what drifts everywhere, causes your breathing and allergy issues, and means more work for whoever does the cleaning and dusting in the house. You need to take care of both. Your gear produces all the same stuff that bigger machines do, but maybe not quite so quickly.
If you buy a HF DC at about $150, consider that you are buying the beginnings of a kit. You will want to replace the lower bag with a heavy plastic bag, and the upper with either a filter (see the Bill Pentz site that others have recommended), or with a better, 2 micron or better, bag ($30 and up). This deals with the 'fines'.
The chips are best dealt with using a trash can 'cyclone' seperator. These can be assembled from purchased parts, or plumbing stuff from the hardware store and scrap plywood or MDF. The one I finished yesterday was a Rubbermaid Commercial trash can (*), two 4" S&D sweep 90's, and a 4" toilet flange, and a 24" round of subflooring plywood. Hooked up to the 1.5 HP DC, (**) there was NO visible collection of stuff in the plastic bag, after 3" of chips in the trash can. I'm planning to add a 2.5" port next week, to handle the router table plumbing I've had for a couple of years.
Budget another $50 to $75 for piping and flex tube, clamps, hangers, caulk flue sealers, etc. Like any other plumbing project, it will take three trips to the supply house at a minimum.
Information here on the wReck was very helpful in putting my system together - much better than most of the magazine articles I've read over the past several years. Thanks, folks!
Patriarch
(*) Rubbermaid seems to believe that here is where the profitable portion of the woodworking market lies.
(**) I bought a Delta 50-850, from the local Rockler retail site. They are right near my home, and are really much easier to deal with, if something should go wrong. Harbor Freight is a 40 mile drive, across a bridge, and an uncertain 'customer experience'. Besides, Delta Grey color coordinates with the drum in (*). And I got a discount for Delta Days.
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wrote:

Mac, are you gonna have "da machine" in your garage too? Gotta keep the dust off of that too.
Keep us informed with your progress with the DC as that is something else still on the list...
--

FMB
(only one B in FMB)
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sorry, but I don't think they allow ram diesel owners in the wreck... *g*
I ordered the DC and starter kit last night... another $210 ding on the ol' credit card...
It would be cheaper and more effective to get one of those trolls from the dodge group to just walk by and inhale once a day..
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Realizing you are cramped for space, I'm going to comment without regards to space. The biggest space saver is no dust collector at all. Since you want one, you think its important enough to allocate some space for it.
Ok here goes. You will have the best space utilization if you put the dust collector in a corner or against the wall some where and put a network in overhead. If you go with portable and drag it around, it will have a much bigger impact on your space utilization.
Now having said that, I like the idea of getting something substantial 1 1/2 hp or larger. My dealer actually tried to convince me to settle on a 1 1/2 hp unit, even though I made it known I could pay for the 2 hp. I bought the 2 hp (Jet) and have never, ever regretted it. As a dust collector fills up and filters get dirty, your collection efficiency goes down (like a vacuum cleaner does when the bag gets full). A larger unit has more reserve and provides enough capacity even when its degraded by partially full bags and dirty filters.
Getting control of the dust in my shop made a huge difference in my enjoyment of every minute I spend there. Now I need to figure out how to control the mess when I get going with my No. 8 hand plane. :-)
Bob
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On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 20:20:50 GMT, "Bob"

larger than mine.. 3 or 4' hoses on each "station" that connect to his DC hoses..
Doing measurements this morning, and figuring that a DC is about 40 gal water heater size, I have an empty wall area behind the shopsmith that is about 12' or so from the RAS & CMS... it's sort of up for grabs which needs DC more, the RAS or the shopsmith, since I do a lot of long edge routing on the SS.. I think that if I have the DC available to the SS & RAS with blast gates (see, I did learn something here), that most of my ]large] dust concern will be met.. Then, the next project will be to build a filtration system..
Bottom line is still whether the $190 2 hp, 1 micron bag or the $150 2 hp 30, micron bag would be better for my needs.. I'm kind of leaning towards the $190, after looking at grizzly and a few other pages that folks here recommended, because it seems that even though it's HF, it looks like my size machine for what I'm doing.....
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