Heating A Shop

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I have the same tank and as long as I use a minimum of 300 gals the tank is free, otherwise it is $60 for the year.
Bruce
Mike wrote:

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BRuce


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My Propane suppliers price ...delivered to my tank are about 60 cents a gallon cheaper then if he delivers to their (my) LEASED tank... that is a heck of a price difference!
They quoted me a price of about 400 dollars to purchase a 440 ???? (crazy nomenclature) tank which would hold about 120 gallons...
Would love to find a used tank in the Baltimore-Washington-Frederick-Hagerstown area....
Bob Griffiths
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Bob G writes:

And I'd love to find one in the Bedford, VA area, but will guess that any local dealers will refuse to fill said tank, because it hasn't been "properly tested." We just priced out getting rid of our leased tank, with totals for a 300 gallon (give or take) tank running something like $900.
I'll lease until the gas furnace goes, then stick in another oil furnace. I really, really regret taking a couple bits of advice from buddies: one, install gas--it's cleaner, cheaper, etc. Bullshit. It's cleaner. It is NOT cheaper than oil, except on a basis that no longer exists. Second bit of advice: lease a tank and buy one when you've got more cash. You will almost certainly NEVER have more case available than at the time you install the unit, so buy the sucker THEN!
With an oil furnace, I'd have spent maybe $500 more at the outset, but the damned oil tank was and is still in place and ready to go. New filter and fire it up. If I'd needed a new tank, IIRC, the price is about $250-$300. Installed.
Charlie Self "Ain't no man can avoid being born average, but there ain't no man got to be common." Satchel Paige
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BRuce <BRuce> wrote:

Yup. Me three. First year out here, we filled it three times. Then we got used to the heat pump, and now we're filling it once and paying the $67 fee every year.
I should get rid of it and get a smaller tank, but it's there, and I'm lazy. It's nice knowing I have all that gas if we have an *c* st*rm too.
The bad part is I can't use any of it to heat my shop. Too far away.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
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How far is it, again? 3/8" soft copper will cary propane a long way.
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Jim in NC
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so will 1/2", our "gardening shed" (need to fool the revenuers) is about 60' from the tank. 1/2" all the way and it has worked well for 3 seasons now.
BRuce
Morgans wrote:

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I have a horizontal, natural gas furnce with central air conditioning. Hanging from the ceiling. Warm in the winter, cool in the summer!! GReg
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scribbled

I have a bathroom fan in the boiler room that blows air into the attached gara^H^H^H shop. It's usually enough to keep the shop above a balmy 0 degrees Celsius, unless it goes below -20 degrees C. I also use a propane heater that attached directly to a 20 lb propane tank.
http://www.canadiantire.ca/assortments/product_detail.jsp ;jsessionid=1hhycWSzoRgy1kWkqKyOr9ud2KO2ZN2f4vgFTC0ojZwurdn0lEAY!-400029170!172915523!7205!7305?FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id%34374303514896&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id08474395348027&bmUID67540897358&PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id5524442153227&assortment=primary
It's enough to heat my 14'X28' shop even at 30 below. Humidity from the burning propane has not been a problem, since I live in a dry climate, and at low outside temperatures the relative humidity in the heated shop stays very low.
Most of my friends have wood stoves, but I can't run a chimney since the shop is below a solarium, and it would take up too much space.
Luigi In the Yukon replace "no" with "yk" for real email address.
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Does anyone have any problems with using an "open flame" type heater. The Borg has a natural gas "blue flame" heater that I've been looking at. It does take a connection to the natural gas line in the house.
Would I have a problem if I was doing some staining or other finish work? What about sanding and generating fine dust?
The Borg (and Lowes) also have a ceramic heater, but they don't look big enough or powerful enough to heat my shop space. Anyone have any experience with those?
Thanks -
Nick B

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I have a 13 x 28 shop and use one of the borg ceramic models (18K BTU maybe) and it is more than adequte. there is some fumes created from the burning of dust in the air and "conversion" of the finishing fumes. I would not spray in the shop but just small touch ups.
Bruce
Nick Bozovich wrote:

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BRuce


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<BRuce> wrote in message

YOU are playing with your life. Any solvents or finishes in that small of a shop without exceptional ventilation, could be disastorios. Just because it has not happened yet, does not mean it won't.
By the way, ever seen a dust explosion? My guess is no.

A ceramic heater could be used as a pre-heater, if no fumes are present, but do not use them as primary heat, unless absolutely sure there are no significant amounts of solvents or dusts in the air. It sometimes does not take much of either, at the wrong place, to cause a big problem.
Btu's is what we need to help you. Also, size and how well insulated, and airtight.
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Jim in NC



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I seriously doubt that, I don't spray any finishes and the heater is on all the time so the vapors do not build up. yes there is plenty of ventilation. I have asthma and if I can still breathe then there is no explosion danger. Do you sell sealed combustion furnaces? i can see no other reason to be so dramatic about a situation that exists in about every 3rd garage through the sate and I do not remember seeing a rash of articles in the paper where the garage blew up. be realistic! this is absurd as grounding your DC so it doesn't blow up.
yes i have experience with grain silos and loose hay storage. In order to create an environment that would produce a dust explosion you would not be able to see to the other end of the shop. the ratio of dust to air has to be quite high. the presence of a combustion source, pilot light, reduces the chance of that explosion due to "burn off".
BRuce
Morgans wrote:

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BRuce


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<BRuce> wrote in message

You are being nieve. Ever seen what can (and will) happen when contact adhesive is used around open flame? That isn't spraying. Lots of other solvents are nearly that flamable. __________________
Do you sell sealed combustion furnaces? i can see no

How many garages have open flames around solvents or finishes. Not 1 in 3. Not many, because most are smart enough not to use solvents around open flame. Think there is a reason why pilot lights have to be elevated 18" above the floor in a garage for a reason? I do.
As far as the crack about me selling furnaces, give me a break. ________________________
this is

I live in the heart of the largest area of furniture production in the country. Dust explosions happen all of the time in plants where the air is considered very breathable, by even OSHA's own standards.
All widespread dust explosion takes is a small zone of favorable factors, in a small area. The explosion then displaces air,(makes wind) and causes vibrations that puts more settled dust into the air, thus causing a "wave" of explosion zone that gets ever larger and more intense. If you think this is myth, or that it won't happen to you, wise up. It probably won't happen to you, but I don't gamble with lives, when there is no need to. For sure don't give advise saying there is absolutely no risk. YOU are absolutely misinformed, and WRONG.
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Jim in NC




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yep, nobody has a gas heater in the garage, nobody welds or uses a cutting torch in the garage. nobody uses "torpedo heaters" in a garage. yep all those garages with their lawn mowers, gas cans, mineral spirits etc and all those sources of ignition and MOST garage fires caused by spontaneous combustion of an oily rag NOT ignition of a handful of dust.
As for gambling with lives, not a chance. gas lines tested to 30PSI, no PVC for air lines, all electrical above local code and all guards in place. Explosion from cutting a piece of plywood or wiping finish on 2x4 foot piece of wood, just isn't going to happen. I'm not saying it hasn't because i have not read every accident report in the world but if it did it would have the same likelihood as getting hit with an airplane wheel. As in all things there are extremes, this news group has many of them.
BRuce
Morgans wrote:

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BRuce


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I'm new here so I won't call you a fool.
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thank you
Mark wrote:

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BRuce


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I've seen the remains of a grain elevator after one. Not a pretty sight. With that said, it's my understanding that the atmosphere has to be generally unliveable by humans before you get a concentration likely to combust.
todd
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You are right, about the zone where the explosions started being "unliveable". Grain elevators are a different environment. The dust level in a very large area is more or less constant. In a shop explosion, one small area with dust and flame, usually has the dust put into the air by a small, localized disturbance, i.e., blowoff hose, ruptured air line, a few pallets or sheets of stock falling over. That is then enough to trigger a chain reaction, that can be enough (given, in these examples, on a larger scale) to blow out walls, lift roofs, and start flash fires, and kill a good many people, all in one incident.
It does happen. I have seen the proof, of people in an inspected "liveable" plant, all consumed by dust explosions. Rare, but hardly able to be ignored.
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Jim in NC



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Open flame carries the usual cautions of flamable paints, solvents, etc. Shops often have gas cans and lawnmowers with fuel. Use your head there.
I do a little staining with my heater on. (I'd never spraypaint though.) Not enough to cause any explosion problems, but the fumes do pass through the flame and burn. Of course they leave an odor when they do. You need more than normal ventilation.

Do you mean those little ceramic cubes? They are 1500 watts and have no more power than any other 1500 watt space heater. 1500 watts = 5118 Btu. My propane heater is 30,000 Btu. Depends on what you really need. Ed
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yep, what he said. there are some odd smells when the vapors burn off as there is with the dust. Like everything else we do in the shop, think first and walk through the possibilities of danger.
BRuce
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

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BRuce


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