There is truth in what you say, yet it is still bothersome to see the shifting of previously distinct companies into corporate conglomerate marketing agendas. The essence is that names mean little today.
Oh, well...
Greg G.
And as one who has been through it, you are right, statistically speaking. When a company does not clearly differentiate between their various lines, blurring occurs in the market place. The ususal outcome is that the top line suffers damage. This also happens to be where the margins are usually highest and where the firms reputation is anchored.
The big box junk at the bottom of the totem pole gets placement in the home centers based on the reputation of the firms top line. But margins get squeezed by the 800 lb. gorilla. You're not making any money, but the volume is growing to the point you have to have it. Then someone comes along and offers the gorilla a similar product for a penny less and he gives them your shelf space. But by now, folks are beginning to doubt the quality of your top line, so you have trouble across all the lines.
The best strategy is to completly separate the lines with absolutley no link bottom to top.
Frank
You could be right, but I think it depends on how one looks at it. When you buy from a car dealership, there's products for the thrifty person and the person with large quantities of disposable income. As with most companies. Only difference on a website is that the printed word doesn't register in the mind nearly as fast as the visual image and that's where the internet falls down ~ at least for now. Don't forget, the internet is barely twenty years old and old farts like us have to reorder our thinking to prevent falling into the online pitfall of instant gratification. I wonder if kids who have grown not knowing any period when the internet did not exist have the same trouble we have?
There is a range, but did you ever notice that Toyota and Lexus cars are sold from different properties? The same goes for Infinity and Nissan.
Scion, as a newly created "hip", but lower-end brand, is sold by specific folks, in a specifically decorated "dealership within a dealership".
But that pricing difference comes from difference in size, features, and options, not by offering a completely different quality of manufacture level and using the same brand name.
Frank
I don't necessarily agree with that. When I go into a Chevy dealer, they have cars that are tens of thousands of dollars apart in price. Size, features and options all come into play and to me anyway, that translates into a noticeable difference in quality. Only consideration is that much of the auto industry is regulated as to safety so they have to meet some level of standards, much more so than a table saw manufacturer.
But, to put this part of the discussion to rest, I agree with you at a certain level that General's two lines can confuse some people who are not as completely informed as they might be. I'm certainly glad I'm past that point. I probably should be aspiring to an even higher level of tool knowledge and consider some of the European lines of tools, but until I have that kind of money, I'm not even going to consider it. :)
True, but different quality levels has always been a part of industries that attempt to appeal to a broad customer base. There have always been companies that sell economy, mid and high end products. I submit that the bigger reason that the high end products suffer is that the mid tier has risen in quality and affordability, thus displacing the high end. In many cases, the high end has simply come down due to access to the customer - read, the likes of the BORGs. Volume purchasing has made what was once out of touch, now available.
In Houston it is not uncommon to see Cadilliacs and Buicks side by side on the show room floor. For a while the closest Cadillac dealer had Cadillac, Buick, GMC, and Hummer. More so with American built cars you see a mix of the product lines.
Leon wrote: ...
Here all of those plus Chevy and Toyota...
What's the point of this? There are even dealerships I know of w/ mixed Chrysler/Ford/GM/Toyota/U_Pick_It on the same floor...
--
I guess it has to do with how each of us defines quality. Size, features and options does not do it for me. If each of those cars is made in factories that have the same philosophy with regard to the statistical capability of each of the processes that make and assemble the parts, the quality level in my view is the same regardless of the size, features and options. In the case originally sited about woodworking machinery, that is not the case. There is a distinct difference between the statistical capability to produce good parts and assemble good units. If they are branded in a way that the individual confuses the two, the top will eventually suffer. Watched it happen up close and personal.
Wasn't commenting on your personal ability to distinguish, only said that it is a statistical reality that the population in general cannot or chooses to be fooled.
Frank
The point, variety to offer the customer. Competition if fierce in Houston. The more you have to offer the more likely you will sell something.
Keep in mind also that many brands have closely tied relationships.
Mazda and Ford build products for each other, Toyota, Suzuki, Isuzu, Chevrolet, and Honda have all built for each other at some scale. Several years ago the Chevy Nova was built by Toyota. Honda purchased the original Passport from Isuzu but oddly Isuzu did not build that vehicle, Chevrolet built all of them, The Blazer, Rodeo, and Passport.
Different brands...
There is no $20000 Lexus, and there's no $80000 Toyota.
Staying with the thread being about about tools, I think in context this is probably spot on. I remember when you used to buy Rockwell brand tools WHEN you could afford them. They made 2 regular circular saws that were used by professional carpenters when I started out in '72. The 315 was a 7 1/4" saw, and the 346 was their "trim" model that housed a mighty 6 1/2" blade. They had some other specialty saws, but for the most part, if you bought a Rockwell saw for carpentry work, you bought one of those two.
Across the board, Rockwell's products were good, to great quality. They catered to the professional, period. In 1975, the first year I could afford a Rockwell 315 in all its glory, it was $135 bucks! Look at the price of circular saws today to get a good reference. While typing this, I remember too, I didn't take that home in a week.
As they changed their marketing approach (sale of assets, change in ownership, change of direction, etc.) they changed and made a homeowner/hobbyist line. It was crap. Pure, unadulterated crap. But that engineering crept into their other lines and we started seeing a lot more plastic and a lot less fit and finish.
Here's where it ties into Frank's post.
On the jobsite, we never differetiated between any models Rockwell made. Even though they used better standards to make their pro line, it was never brought up. In about 24 months, the general consensus was that Rockwell "had gone to shit". Period.
That is what pushed me to buy my first Milwaukee tools. To me, even though Rockwell was around for many more years and in some cases making good tools, I didn't want anything else to do with them as I felt like I couldn't trust them to not cheapen a tool I was relying on to make a living.
Robert
That's how I feel about Porter Cable. It used to mean something. Their old production routers didn't know how to quit. Now, in some cases, when a PC router is a part of a package, it will have a bearing-rebuild package available right away. IOW, "here's your router... btw, it might behoove you to take some of these bearings now, because they WILL f*ck up tout-suite."
I was glad to see an affordable circular saw become available with the blade on the left without having to drop big bucks on a worm drive. In my peculiar situation, cutting 12' strips along a fence, that set- up was something I thought would help me. So I bought the left-blade Porter Cable. I already had a couple of regular saws, like my Milwaukee and an old genuine Skill. I looked at that PC and saw a cast magnesium shoe, quick- toolless blade change, all looked nice. It would have been nice if there had been some mechanical connection, besides a piece of pop-can tin, that held that good-looking shoe to the motor part. What a piece of shit. That thing flexed and wobbled and made the worst cut I had ever seen. Just a minor bit of applied pressure and the blade would angle an easy 5+ degrees on it's own free will. Good idea, lousy execution a la PC profile sander and PC 500 pocket cutter. I have, since, written off PC as a brand worth considering for anything serious. Same with Ryobi, Craftsman, DeWalt (with a couple of exceptions) Black and Decker, Skill..and Bosch was teetering for a while there too, but they seem to have found their feet again. If I WANT a piece of shit, I will drive to the Piece-O-Shit store and BUY, knowingly, a piece of shit.
It is no wonder that the likes of Fein and Festool, Milwaukee and Makita, Bosch and Metabo are selling tools. (Caveat: NONE of them are perfect, as not ALL the products from the 'DISLIKE' category are crap. There are always exceptions.)
my $ 0.0204 worth.
SNIP of good stuff
Can I get an AMEN on the snippage? I feel like just about any tool these days I buy has a timer on it as to when it will crap out. I know there are a lot of defenders of their favorite tools, but most are just usable junk.
And I agree with both of them. Not sure about the other 0.0004, though...
Robert
When Acura was introduced into this country, the existing Honda dealers had first crack at the franchises, but there was a catch: the Acura dealership could not be located in or adjacent to the same town as that dealer's Honda facility. So, for example, Schaller has a Honda showroom in New Britain but had to locate their Acura store in Manchester. I'm sure they would have preferred Morande's location, but it wasn't allowed.
Lee
LOL, When Honda "Cars" were introduced into this country the existing Honda motorcycle dealers had first crack at the franchises, but there was a catch. Sound familiar? ;~)
The dealers had to eventually decide to sell motorcycles or automobiles but not both from the same dealership.
This day is called the feast of Nahm: He that outlives this day, and comes safe home, Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named, And rouse him at the name of Nahm. He that shall live this day, and see old age, Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours, And say 'To-morrow is Saint Nahm:' Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars. And say 'These wounds I had on Nahm's day.' Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot, But he'll remember with advantages What feats he did that day: then shall our names. Familiar in his mouth as household words Morash the king, Silva and Trethewey, Cook and Gallant, Dee and Roy, Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd. This story shall the good man teach his son; And Nahm Nahm shall ne'er go by, From this day to the ending of the world, But we in it shall be remember'd; We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, This day shall gentle his condition: And gentlemen in Nahmland now a-bed Shall think themselves accursed they were not here, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That fought with us upon Saint Nahm's day.
(my vaguest apologies)
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
I wonder how many brad nailers he went through in
20 years.S.
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