Handsaws

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Does anyone have any *first hand* knowledge of the Lynx line of hand saws made in England by The Garlick Saw Co? I'm particularly interested in how they compare to the old Disston saws, which in good condition are becoming pretty expensive due to collectors gobbling them up. I know that there are some who contend that !nothing! that can compare to a Disston, but...
TIA
Cliff
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Hi Cliff,
I've both Pax and Roberts & Lee panel saws, and have a few <g> vintage saws, Disston, Bishop, Atkins, etc.
There are a few differences. Appearance wise, the fit and finish doesn't approach vintage saws. The handles are less appealing, blades are not well polished, etc.
The Roberts and Lee ones are taper gound, though not as much as certain of the Disston line [most of the other makers didn't taper grind as much either]. I don't think Pax are, but I would need to go out to the shop to check.
Whether this is a real issue is a matter of debate. The above saws cut well and represent a good value as far as saws are concerned. And handles can always be replaced if they bug you.
Take care, Mike
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Lie-Nielson has panel saws coming out... I saw prototypes over a year ago. When I spoke with Tom L-N about them a couple weeks ago the biggest issue for getting them to market was the production of high quality handles. I'm interested!
John
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 17:24:57 GMT, "John Grossbohlin"

enjoy using. The quality of their products is refreshing to see in this time of mass produced garbage from the majority of manufacturers.
Cliff
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:01:19 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@spam.invalid (MikeW) wrote:

Thanks Mike,
I have a 60's saw with the Disston name on it (well after the company was sold) that I haven't used in many years, but it has no taper and was always prone to binding. In fact it has a bit of a kink in it from that problem. I have several Japanese saws that I use and like, but there are times when I'd just as soon use a push saw. I've been scanning eBay and the web for something of good quality, but finding good pieces is difficult and expensive. I've seen some of the English saws being sold through outlets here in the states and wondered at their level of manufacture. I may just try one of them out and see how it works out.
Thanks again, Cliff
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:29:47 -0500, cdo opined:

Really? User Disstons aren't too pricey. Forget pretty, just look for straight.
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I cannot get myself to use anything except my Disstons.
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wrote:

I pretty much use Dissons and Independence saws. :-) Both panel saws and backsaws.
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Hi John,
I too have played with one last year. Nice saw. Did Tom mention the price he was going to do?
Thanks, Mike
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No mention of prices on the panel saws...
John
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Hey Cliff
There are current English saws that are stated to be taper ground, the Lynx brand by Garlick but the price ...
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/default.php/cPath/37_117_505
I'd rather pay half that for an old Disston. I suggest check out thrift shops, junk shops and antique malls. My D-23's were around $5, the $8.50 for sharpening.
Taper ground means the blade is thicker at the heel (handle) and thinner at the toe. My old Disston D-23's are taper ground, and they cut just ... very very WELL, very smoothly. Sweetly!
You also have 'back saws' by Lie-Nielson and Adria but my complaint is the hardness of the steel, being from 51 to 54 on the Rockwell "C" type hardness test, and who knows what it is with the Lynx saws.
By comparison, old US saws are made of cast spring steel which is stated to be of RC 60 as a standard, that means the sharpened edge will last a lot longer, with more integrity in the cutting. Therefore, the better and cheaper way to go.
You really do get a far better deal buying the old US saws. The rest just seems to be 'marketing'.
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AAvK wrote:

Another good place to look is at estate sales. I've found a lot of good old handsaws at estate sales.
BTW, I like Atkins better than Disston. Both cut about the same and both will let you bend the blade all the way to the handle (indicating good spring steel), but the Atkins "Silver Steel", whatever that is, seems much less prone to rust. Every Atkins saw I've run across has had little or no rust. Only about one in ten Disstons are in that kind of shape.
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On Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:11:02 -0700, Larry Blanchard

That's interesting... More nickle in the mix than some others perhaps?
I'll have to keep an eye out for them.
Cliff
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wrote:

I'm evidently a bit confused - I thought the taper was from the toothed edge to the back edge, with a constant thickness heel to toe. If it's narrower at the toe, what prevents binding as you progress through the cutting stroke? That's illogical...
Cliff
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cdo wrote:

They are, from what I've seen, double-tapered; flaring toe to heel and top to bottom. Less set is required for the teeth so you get a smoother cut, but a blade sharpened many times isn't going to have the same taper...
er
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the Rockwell "C" type hardness test, and who knows what it is with the Lynx saws.

that means the sharpened edge will last a lot longer, with more integrity in the cutting. Therefore, the better and cheaper way to go.

But the old saws, and in particular old Disstions, were at or below 54 RC...
Disstionian Institute
60 RC is at or approaching mass-produced Japanese saws and the current spat of hardened tooth western saws.
Too brittle for hard use in hard woods.
But I agree, old saws are a cost effective means to having western saws. eBay can be a crap shoot, but I have gotten as many good ones from there as I have estate sales and garage sales.
To be honest and up front here, I am a saw maker. And my question to John was partially self-serving as I am a minor spec of competition on Tom Lie-Nielsen's business. But then again, Tom knows I'll also purchase one of his panel saws. Why? Because I love saws with a passion and I have enjoyed every tool he has produced.
Take care, Mike
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OK thanks for the clearity. I have read that old cast steel is a standard of RC 60 so they must've been yakking about chisels and such. What you said is what I wanted to hear (or "read" lol). I really love hand saws, as well.
Got a business website?
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MikeW wrote:

I'd like to know where they are getting their spring steel and what kind. The hardest pre-hardened, tempered steel I can find 1095 (blue) steel, which is rockwell C48-51. The only way I can see to get something better is to do the hardening and tempering.
RC50 is probably sufficient for a little dovetail, it's just nice to quote exotic numbers. :)
I'm not a sawmaker, just a curious hobbiest. I'd like to see your saws. :)
er
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Hi Alex and Enoch,
Web site is here: Saws price list.
fwiw, the steel at 48-51/52 is more than hard enough for any western saw and is within the range which Disston used. Disston was their own steel maker.
The balance is hard enough to take and retain an edge, and for sharpening without the use of special files. I think Disston had a good balance.
As for steel used today, we use steel rolled in the US, LN uses Swedish steel and I am uncertain what Adria uses. I don't know whether LN purchases through Sandvik or Uddeholm, two major suppliers of Swedish steel. In today's steel market with the processes available in which ever country, I am uncertain as to the efficacies of one over the other.
We also make saws based upon reproductions. Currently that includes reproducing the saws from the Benjamin Seaton Chest, made by John Kenyon in the later 18th century. We have two of the large backsaws made and have begun on the crosscut handsaw. These backsaws are large--19" blade length, 4 1/2" at the toe of usable depth, rising 5/8" by the heel. It's a fun project.
Take care, Mike
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MikeW wrote:

Thanks.
I have seen examples of some of the features of the Seaton Chest in the toolbox book, and I think it may have served as the model for that mockup on the April LV mailer cover (maybe not, as it's just the handles that are similar).
I haven't seen anything on the tools--especially not of the saws.
er
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