Hand Plane Comparison: Stanley vs. Veritas

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On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 08:51:58 -0600, Duane Bozarth

I have the medium, bullnose, and large Veritas versions, and I love them. The medium would be an excellent first shoulder plane. I've also used Clifton 410 and 420 shoulder planes, they're excellent, but I do not think they are worth the price difference over Veritas. The LN versions were everything one would expect them to be when I tried them. However, they don't make a medium shoulder plane.
I think a good, medium shoulder plane is a great second plane, after a low angle block, for a shop with power jointing and thicknessing equipment.
Barry
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On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:13:50 -0600, "Mike H."

perform well. The Stanleys look good -- if you don't look too closely. They can even be made to perform well -- but it usually takes an awful lot of work.
I have some Stanley planes as well as a Veritas. The best way to think of the Stanleys is as a plane kit. The parts are all there but it takes a lot of work to turn it into the real thing. By the time you get done flattening the sole, fooling with the frog, etc., you'll have a lot of time into the plane. By the time you get it right you will have learned a tremendous amount about planes as well.
If this is your first plane, I would strongly suggest spending the money for the Veritas. It may still take some tuning, but you'll be making shavings a lot sooner and you'll be a lot happier.
--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets fly with a club. -- John W. Cambell Jr.
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Mike:
You could also try the inexpensive wooden Planes - Taiwanese style from Lee Valley.
They are very good and very inexpensive. They are much better than a new cheaply made plane.
I have handled the new Lee Valley (Veritas) planes at their store - and if you can afford them they are great value.
Mike H. wrote:

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On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:13:50 -0600, "Mike H."

You'll find that most of us (those without several satchels of cash) have all bought used Stanleys which are up to around 100 years old and all of us love them to death.

The newer models aren't as well made as the oldies.

Shininess. LN, Veritas, and new Stanleys are all quite shiny.
Another possibility for you is to buy one of Steve Knight's smoothers. It's a wood plane with a thickarse blade. They cost less than Veritas, too (by a whopping $4 and s/h.) Look for them on Ebay or at his website at www.Knight-Toolworks.com . I own a whole bevy of his planes and like them, using the smoother a lot.
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my advertising money well spent (G) hey I have been playing around with some/new planes for my first of the year planes www.knight-toolworks.com/web_temp_pics/newyearplanes.jpg a couple of pocket planes one in ebony and one in zircote and some 7.5" long finish planes in bubinga and rosewood. these have short blades so you hand fits over the top and the finger grooves. I missed my low rider planes. also making some 2.5" and 3" bladded jointers.
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12 (literally) low angle blocks, smoothers and jacks, adjustable mouths? I think that would fill a good niche of competition for you. Another would be skew angle shoulder type planes used for cross grain tennon work. I'll be doing that and had to buy some old used ones on eBay.
Alex
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much need. metal planes benefit from a low angle because they have blade vibration problems that limit what woods they can handle. were a woodies does not. Plus I found them very hard to adjust. I made them with a steel plate epoxied to the plane iron bed. I had made paired of skewed shoulder planes at 45. but it is a paid to need two planes for a job like that and they are a pain to set.
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On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 07:14:47 GMT, Steve Knight

Hehehe. I got those planes fair and square for weeks of work on a previous design incarnation of your website. Speaking of which, the site is 2 years old now (date-stamped 2002.) It's time for a new design, Steve. (I should talk, my site hasn't been updated in that time, either. <blush> )

Ah, I can tell those are counterfit. They're already marked 2005 and it's only 2004 now! ;)

Ooh, jointer planes? <scritch, scritch, scritch> Let's talk! I still don't own a Normite jointer and I never really got fully comfortable with that bigass oaken bastihd of your earliest design.
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I think the design is ok but it sure needs some updating.

but they won't be finished till then so there (G)

these are really bigass. I have not finished one far enough to weight it yet but they are going to be monsters.
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I went the ebay route myself only for reasons of cash on hand (or lack thereof!). I've got pretty much No. 2 through No. 8 bench planes. Yes, they take a bit of work to get tuned but I learned more about a plane that way than if I had just bought one. A few hours truing the sole, cleaning it up, and sharpening has yielded me great planes. I highly recommend looking at Patrick's Blood and Gore (don't have the link with me at the moment) as it'll tell you how to identify a particular plane and makes recommendations as to what year's were best.
That being said, I always wonder when I get my LV or LN catalog.... Cheers, cc
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Mike H. wrote:

I'd buy one of each of the Veritas if I had the cashola. They look excellent, and everybody talks good talk about them.
What I actually have is an odd hodgepodge. Where the old and new, black and blue lines cross is at the #4 level. I have two #4s, one new, and one around 90 years old.
I put a lot of work into tuning up the new #4, and I did fine work with it. After I got the old one, I put a wicked ugly curved blade in the new #4 and turned it into a scrub.
It really is amazing. The one is new, clean, in perfect working order, and it even has a groovy easy-adjust frog. The old one is pitted, covered with hard brown rust wherever it doesn't have to rub on anything, and just generally looks pretty nasty sitting side by side with its newer cousin. When both of them were tuned to be smoothers, I kept picking up the old one time and again. I swear it takes better shavings even though it has the original (or an original vintage) iron with some light pitting on the back. I tweaked the new one into making some damn whispy shavings, and I thought I had a great plane, but then I gave that junky looking nonagenerian a push, and I figured out why everybody says the new English Stanley stuff sucks.
It's about as much work to tweak up an old rust bucket as a new English one. Unless you happen to find a plane owned by somebody who was up to the same anal retentive standards we modern dorkers are, it's probably going to need a bit of twiddling to deliver peak performance. I have no experience with the Veritas planes, but I believe that they're probably a better way to go if you A) don't really care about owning tools from a bygone era, B) want to buy something that you can get to work with in short order.
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Isn't it something the way these things work on us. There's absolutely nothing quantifiable in what you posted Mike. It's all subjective. But... it's the way things go. I have a Remington 870 that I use just for deer hunting. As hunting goes, I much prefer bow hunting than gun hunting, but when shotgun and rifle season comes around I find myself anxious for it, and loving it when I head out into the woods with that 870. I just love the feel of that gun in my hands. Nothing quantifiable about it. The 870 stands on its own as a first rate firearm, but I'm talking about a love affair that goes way beyond the merits of a shotgun. Where I hunt one could make a good case for having a 30-06 in the gun cabinet, but I just use that 870. It's all about the way it feels in my hands. Well, that and the number of deer that have met their fate in front of that gun. My other guns are all nothing more than utilitarian devices to me. I could sell any one of them and never really miss them. There is indeed a certain irrational aspect to this stuff.
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snipped-for-privacy@alltel.net writes:

So very true. About 18 months ago, I started sewing again after a 20-year rest (the same time as my woodworking, if one can call mine woodworking). FYI, in 1983, I started my business which consumed my time and left no time for the other fun stuff as family and business had to take priority over my hobbies regardless of how much we benefited from certain hobbies. Anyway, last December I bought a state-of-the-art sewing machine that does all the fancy stuff, pre-programmed (discs) embroidery work was the catch there. Yes, I've used it, but 95-98 percent of my sewing is done on my 1973 Viking 6030 (very state-of-the-art back then). Some old friends just cannot be retired!!! Like my old Craftsman power tools, it just goes on and on and on. (Still annoyed with my ex who borrowed the mid-60s circular saw a dozen years ago and got it stolen with his van!)
The new circular saw I bought, also a Craftsman, just isn't the old one! It just doesn't feel right in my hands, and I find myself often using a much smaller and less effective one purchased at a yard sale. It's been over ten years, and it should have worked its way into my affections by now (or is that "sawn" its way?).
Any suggestions as to a way to learn to love the new one will be considered. The old and the new were/are both 7.25 inch saws, so it's not the weight, etc., or likely anything rational.
Glenna
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:10:23 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) wrote:

I know how that works. My wife has three Vikings, including a Rose. She uses her Number 1 (older model) for most stuff and the Rose for embroidery. Her travelling machine (when she gets it back) is a 6460 she bought new more than 30 years ago.

Sometimes the old stuff is just superior, even given equal quality.

--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets fly with a club. -- John W. Cambell Jr.
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On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 10:10:23 -0800, snipped-for-privacy@pmug.org (Glenna Rose) calmly ranted:
-snip-

I just picked up a use Consew 210 industrial sewing machine and am learning how to use it to create my glare guards. (After 5 shops turned down doing them for me, 3 after they made samples.) It is SO much easier to use than my $5 garage sale Universal (cast iron beastie like Mom's) which was easy enough to use.

I don't doubt that at all. Tools have a "feel" which you either like, adapt to, or love right away. It's not always evident upon picking up an object, either. Some feel awkward until they're in use, when they come into their own and pull you in. I felt that way about the little Stanley #60-1/2 low-angle block plane until I used it, and now it's one of my most-used tools on a daily basis.

Since battling Searz over their Crapsman warranties both in the late 70s (when I quit buying anything Searz) and just this month again (when an old Craftsman driver finally died), I've nothing good to say about them, so I won't even TRY to tell you how to love that one, Glenna. Instead, I'll say "Use the other one!" The subject is a can of worms for those of us who tried to make a living with their tools.
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Larry Jaques wrote:

Yerk. I too know how to run one of those dad blasted things. I'd rather eat paint though. What little (verrrry little) sewing I need to do is best done by hand.
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