Hey folks, think about this. Obviously using a hand plane for jointing a board possible to do since for along long time that was the ONLY way to do it. You know, back when there was no electric and stuff? If you cant get it to work using a handplane its either the wrong tool or you. Simple as that!
Jim
You've made a very good point. If the blade projects beneath the plane, the piece of wood that you're working on will never be perfectly flat because the reference surface is not the same as the cutting edge.
To cut the wood perfectly flat, it seems that the plane should be divided into two separate pieces. The part of the plane that is in front of the blade could be raised to the height of the cut desired. The part of the plane that is behind the blade should be set so that the blade and the sole of the plane are at the same level.
It might help to visualize a router table set-up as an edge jointer. To avoid snipe, the outfeed fence and the cutter are in line. The infeed fence is moved back a little (the depth of cut desired). Couldn't the toe of the plane be thought of as the infeed fence on a router table and the heel of the plane be thought of as the outfeed fence?
I think I read about what you mention here in The Handplane Book. I don't have a jointer, so can't speak from experience, but I can tell you that the low angle block plane is not the tool you want for this task. You would use a smooth plane like a number 4 or even a slightly longer plane, set to take a very fine shaving. As I understand it, low angle planes are mostly for end grain and maybe grain that has no particular direction. The point is not to make the work piece straighter than it comes off the jointer though. The point is to remove any slight ripples left by the rotating cutting head of the power jointer.
-Chris
that's PRECISELY why I can't see how a plane can make anything truly FLAT. A jointer wouldn't if it was set up like a plane. So what are we missing? Or is the emperor buck naked again?
dave
Richards wrote:
Chris, you understand my dilemma exactly. If I get a smoother (sorry, I had misspoken earlier when I referred to a block plane) as my first quality plane (Veritas $160) I was wondering if I could smooth a power jointed edge to perfection. The edge would already be flat, but the object of further work would be to remove machining marks, as you noted. Somebody understands me! :)
dave
Christ>>so there is no point to getting a low angle block plane to take a swipe
Bay Area Dave asks:
Why is your power jointer leaving machining marks? And a jointer plane would do a better job of smoothing out your rough machining. It's made for that work.
Charlie Self
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things." Sir Winston Churchill
I DON'T notice any obvious marks unless I rush a piece through on the first pass. I am just repeating what I've read about guys doing; taking a pass with a plane before glue-ups. Then I got to thinking that how flat is the surface gonna stay if I get the results like I got with tinkering around with a small plane.
After all is said and done, I think I'm gonna order the smoother, but not for edges. I want something to tweak a board to EXACT length when the TS gets me within 5 thous and I want it within .002 or better. An example of when I could have used a very fine length adjustment was when I edged my desk. I didn't want mitered corners, so I cut the side edging to exactly the width of the desk top, hiding the end grain with the front edging. I could NOT sand or machine the front edge flush, because I used a shaper to put detail on all the edging before attaching them to the desk. So I couldn't overlap and sand or plane to even out any discrepancies.
dave
dave
Charlie Self wrote:
Thanks to everyone for the lively discussion. I just ordered the Veritas low angle smoother...
dave
Bay Area Dave wrote:
Some 12' #3 Ipe, and you're all set.
This is why you piss-off people like Scott (and the faceless rabble, too tired to play tard-ball with you anymore). I plugged this into Google:
"hand plane differently jointer group:rec.woodworking"
And got this:
O'Deen
Why don't YOU show me how to tame that bad boy?
dave
Michael Baglio
the only people "pissed off" are the cranky SOB's. Everyone else who has contributed to this thread has been a gentleman. Perhaps you and cramer could use a little "charm"?
For a while I thought this thread would avoid the nasty comments that a handful of the Wreckers are wont to make. Thanks to all who contributed USEFUL, ON-TOPIC posts.
Olguin, you have lowered yourself to Cramer's level. I didn't think anyone else was in his league. QED
dave
Patrick Olguin wrote: snip rude comments
Oh, yes, of course. The problem *must* be with EVERYBODY ELSE. It couldn't possibly be with YOU.
WTF?? BAD, suggesting that *others* "could use a little charm"? Pot, kettle, black. Physician, heal thyself. Etc.
You can dish it out (as your posts of about ten days ago clearly illustrated), but you can't take it.
Naw. He was simply pointing out, more politely than most, that you should develop the habit of seeking out information on your own, instead of yelping for help on each and every one of the all too frequent occasions when you find yourself bewildered.
If you think that was "rude", Dave, you've led a *very* sheltered life.
["rude" comments restored below]Dave,
This is why you piss-off people like Scott (and the faceless rabble, too tired to play tard-ball with you anymore). I plugged this into Google:
"hand plane differently jointer group:rec.woodworking"
And got this:
O'Deen
-- Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
How come we choose from just two people to run for president and 50 for Miss America?
um doug? you waging a full scale argument with a half wit? :-}
The formal scientific name for the thermodynamic cycle on which the
4 cycle engine runs is the 'Otto' cycle, named for a German engineer.'Automobile' is actually a corruption of 'Ottomobile.'
I'll add that an electric jointer uses a rotary cutter that results in a scalloped surface. You can do better with a handplane.
Or at least some folks can.
Just like Cramer is a corruption of the gene pool...
dave
Fred the Red Shirt wrote: snip
please tell the dougster that my alleged shortcomings do nothing, nada, nyet, to negate Cramer's disgusting off-topic personal attacks.
how can he argue with me unless you are going to keep quoting him?
At least my glass is half full.
dave
snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote: snip
why hello BAD i was worried you may have plonked me too. i can sleep better now thank you. :-} skeez
On 13 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave whimpered unto rec.woodworking:
Was it something I said?
The hallmark of BAD's presence here is the way he blunders unarmed into a battle of wits.
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