gun blue a table saw surface


Like most of you, I am careful to clean/wax my table saw whenever I use it (or sometime more often depending on the weather) to keep the surface clean and 'non-stick'. Now, I don't fish much anymore (stay with me here), but recently went with my brother to the Texas gulf coast and in my old tackle box was a "file knife" (a squid knife as we called them) that I had made from a metal file some 35+ years ago. We didn't catch any keepers in case you're wondering, but the knife still had a descent edge from whenever the last time I sharpened it, and I can't really remember when that was. In any case, that file knife was treated with generic gun bluing agent when it was made - after grinding, sanding, and rough sharpening. After 35+ years and plenty of uses this file knife had minimal rust (oxidation) other than on the sharpened edge surface and had required no virtually no care over time, even after a number of trips to both fresh and salt water. This caused me to wonder how gun bluing (an acid of sorts, I believe) might work on a cast tablesaw surface. For the record, I'm not about to experiment with my own table saw :-), but was wondering if any of you good people have done this. If so, I'm curious how it has or has not worked out, and any other comments you might have
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Dave wrote:

Lots of "gun blue" recipes out there. In general they add minimal rust resistance and they don't take kindly to cast iron (rather than steel).
If you're looking for rust resistance from blueing, then you'll be wanting a process a bit more complex than the usual selenium salts in methanol from Bob's Hunt'n Shootin' Supplies (and that's a thread for another day). Besides which Birchwood Casey's blue is one of the worst I've used - even Liberon's is better.
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Blueing, certainly is not a rust preventative. It is a coating primarily to obscure reflection, and give a more palatable color then a stark metal finish.

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*Real* blueing (not the kind out of a bottle) actually is a fairly good rust barrier. On the down side, it requires dunking the material into hot vats of caustic liquids. I suspect this would do wonders for the flatness of a table saw surface, not to mention the general difficulty of dunking your table saw. :) PK
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:09:15 GMT, "HMFIC-1369" < snipped-for-privacy@VVet.comBaa Baa> wrote:

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If it would hurt your tablesaw, what do you think it would do to a rifle barrel? Warped barrels are fine, right? Think about it. Hot bluing will not change the shape or damage anything. In any case, hot bluing is a time expedient, modern method. No need for heat unless you are trying for speed..

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better than the cold blue solutions, and about the same as a more natural browning process, as far as continuing rust protection is concerned. That is, better than nothing, but not as good as other treatments. PK
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wrote:

Better than the "instant cold blue". Not better than a good cold bluing job. A good cold bluing job is at least the equal of hot bluing. The only reason gun manufacturers don't use it is time.
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The instant stuff is what I meant. Sorry I wasn't clear. PK

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Gun Blue is not a "rust preventative" and never has been. Wasn't designed for it, isn't used for it either. If you treat a blued fire arm like stainless steel you'd get a rust bucket. There are other coatings designed for that!
Take your S&W or Colt dip in a bucket o water and then tell me What a great rust preventative it is!!!!

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Not a preventative - true. But it is intended for that purpose, primarily. Oh, we like the blue/black color, it looks nice, but that was not the original purpose. The process also adds the ability of the surface to take and hold oil, better than bare steel.
No, I won't stick my guns in a bucket of water. I also would not want to handle guns in a white metal state either. They would pick up fingerprint rust spots much easier than blued pieces.
Ever wonder why heat treated allen cap bolts come with a black oxide coating? It's because the heat treating process has removed all traces of oil from the surface leaving them to start corroding immediately. Black oxide is an inexpensive process that will slow the corrosion process AND hold a coating of oil. Such bolts can also be zinc plated, but a post plating baking process is required to prevent hydrogen embrittlement, which adds cost.
So, in fact, the protection is modest at best, but is some protection nonetheless.
Resources: http://www.unibath.com/blackoxide.php3 http://www.allblackco-llc.com /
Incidentally, painting is one of the worst things you can do to a firearm. The result will be rust UNDER the paint where you cannot treat with oil. -- ******** Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com
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Gun blue offers some protection in that it is a controlled surface oxidation, which inhibits further oxidation/rust. The benefit is about equal to a nice patina that only time can achieve.
A generally available treatment is black oxide, a process available in most industrial cities. It is similar in process, if not color, to gun blue. In fact, some gun 'blue' is closer to black in color.
Contact a black oxide processor and discuss the process, it's benefits, how it works on cast iron, and get their opinion on whether the heat of the solution is enough to warp your table.
Don't waste your time on "cold blue" applications.
-- ******** Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com
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Dave wrote:

flam there.
Bluing is nothing but controlled rust process and it is not durable nor is it a very good rust preventative. Maybe that's why England switch to paint on the Enfields. Boards sliding over the bluing will remove it rather quickly and lots of other stuff will scratch it. You would be better off with a phosphate process.
But best of all, you probably want to stick with what the woodworkers in high humidity areas suggest.
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It would appear that none of the nay-sayers have tried Brownell's Oxphoblue. I've tried several finish types, and that's the only one that came out well. Excellent in fact. Use several coats, one won't do it, and probably not two.
JOAT If it ain't broke - fix it 'til it is. - Unknown
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On the contrary, I have used it, and it is arguably the best of the breed. And, that's kind of sad. I have had some good results, but even then the color was not permanent.
I am leaving tomorrow for a week in WY chasing prairie goats. Had my custom Mauser at the range last weekend looking it over. I did a modification to the trigger guard about 15 years ago, and used the Brownell product to avoid rebluing the guard (would be expensive for one small part). The color of the blue has faded and I'm glad that it is on the bottom and not often seen.
Would be a waste of time on a TS table IMO.
-- ******** Bill Pounds http://www.billpounds.com
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Wed, Sep 21, 2005, 9:54am (EDT-3) snipped-for-privacy@billpounds.com (PoundsonWood) spoketh: On the contrary, I have used it, and it is arguably the best of the breed. And, that's kind of sad. I have had some good results, but even then the color was not permanent. <snip>
I put about 7 coats on an old .43 rolling block, made a lovely dark coat. But I've never seen "any" bluing where the color could be considered permanent - unless maybe it was put in a museum, and never handled. You want permanent, may something like black chrome. I don't know how the .43 is getting along, had to sell it many years back.
As far as blue being rust resistant, some of you guys must be living on another planet. Even stainless steel can corrode. You wipe your guns down with a bit of oil every once in awhile, that's your rest resistance. Sheesh. You might want to try browning, as that starts out with a light coating of rust. Google it.
And, yeah, all bluing would do for a table saw is make extra work.
JOAT The toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you will have to kiss tomorrow. - Unknown
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Parkerizing is a bit better than bluing at holding oils, but for a good table surface (slick, rust-resistant), black chrome would work (certainly not easy for the do-it-yourselfer)
-Bruce
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