I'm the computer programmer who posted here a couple weeks ago. Thanks to the help here the desk turned out nice.. a $500 desk for just $80 worth of lumber.
I want to build more stuff so I'm looking for tools. Are Grizzly tools any good? I ran across someone who is selling a used grizzly saw that takes 220 power, a 8" grizzly jointer, and a 3hp grizzly shaper all for $1000. Is that price reasonable and are those important tools to own for building furniture? Thanks.
I think you should email me the seller's name, address, and phone number. I'll check it out and let you know if it is a good deal. ;)
Yes, yes and yes.
-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Grizzly is generally regarded as a good inexpensive brand. Their machines may need a bit more TLC at setup time, but perform well thereafter. I have several in my shop. I'll probably replace all of them at some point, but I have a pretty complete shop now, for relatively little money.
As to your specific deal, it depends (you'll see that answer a lot here). Is the saw a cabinet table saw (has a base that sorta looks like a pedestal) or a contractor's table saw (has spindly legs underneath)? The cabinet saw is more desireable and are more expensive new. An 8" jointer is nice, you may never need/want another. I'd probably skip the shaper if you're just starting out. You'd probably get more utility from a good router. You can check current prices at grizzly.com.
Have fun with it!
I think the 8 jointer is around $800 new, shaper I guess the same, table saw new guess $400 to $800+ new, If they all work and are not beaten up or abused I think its worth it.
What does an 8" jointer do? What the heck is a JOINTER? Google isn't being very helpful. In which case would you need a jointer?
The things I want to make are desks, drawers, etc so I guess I could live with a hand held router? A cheapy table saw? But what is this jointer for? Seems everyone wants or has one.
Richard (computer programmer becoming woodworker)
"Rich" wrote in news:A_iId.4942$ry.3567@fed1read05:
So, some questions are in order.
Would having the $1000 in tools, rather than in the bank, seriously impair your financial situation?
Are you willing to take an Adult Ed class or 3, before you ever turn on the equipment you have been offered?
Do you have sufficient room in the garage/basement/shed to store, and then later use these?
How do you feel about selling things to strangers?
Some comments:
A shaper should be used only by someone who understands its operations, and has been instructed and shown in person how it works. The same is probably also true for the other tools, but television probably provides more opportunity to understand how to use a tablesaw and a jointer.
rec.woodworking is not set up to instruct you how to safely use power tools. It's a text based group of folks who swap information, speculation, lies, opinion and so forth. Although I've come to trust many of the posters here, because of their history, as a newbie, there was no way to validate who was knowledgable, and who was spreading fertilizer. You need to be shown by someone, in person, who knows how to use these tools, and cares that they are used safely. As Charles Schultz had Snoopy say, "On the Internet, no one knows you're a dog".
The dollar figure for the tools is probably a good deal. If they work, and haven't been abused. I'd likely spend the grand, and then put the shaper and saw up for sale, but that's me. I have a good cabinet saw and router table, which serve my needs and more.
Other used equipment deals will come along. _very_few_ used gear opportunities are truly once in a lifetime. Unisaws with three digit serial numbers, etc.
I'm glad the desk worked out. Welcome to the hobby.
Patriarch
Rich -
If you're going to build furniture, you have to be able to accurately measure and mark your stock so that a single small error, perhaps repeated on other components, doesn't compound and come back to haunt you as you begin assembly.
A jointer is used to provide a flat surface or edge for reference. For the sake of arguement, lets say you had a board that was surfaced and looked square, but had a slight bow of 1/4" along one edge. If you didn't joint the edge of the board, the "hollow" of the board, that you've assumed was true and straight would give you crosscuts of something other than 90 degrees when you cross-cut, as the "untrue" edge would give you a varying reference point against the fence when you made the cuts. Those errors would then compound. Safety is also an issue - cutting stock that doesn't ride true against the fence during a rip cut could kick back.
Check out
The shaper is nice, but may be a bit much for your need (at least for now) Shapers and routers are used to put edge profiles on stock as well as joinery fuctions, but cutters for routers are significantly less expensive than shaper cutters. Depending on your situation, you might want to buy the set and then sell the shaper. The deal you are talking about would be a deal if the equipment isn't chewed up. If the tablesaw is a cabinet saw, it's a very good deal. I'd jump at the chance to get a deal on an 8" jointer!
You are among friends here, so continue to post your questions. Don't forget that a trip to the library can give you all kinds of information. Almost anything from Tauton Press (the Fine Woodworking and Fine Homebuilding folks) is going to answer alot of questions for you. They also have DVD's and Videotapes that may be a hit or miss, but ANYTHING by either Frank Klausz (sp??) or Bob Flexner is a must-see.
If you can, post pics of your desk over in alt.binaries.pictures.woodworking - I know I'd like to see them! Good luck and congratulations, I hope, on your first major tool purchase and gloat. Not everyone here has been so lucky.
Let the rec know how you did!
John Moorhead
Rich,
Jointer is a tool that allows cutting very straight edges that can be jointed together. The straight edges are the foundation for all accurate woodworking projects.
Cheers, Ollie (another bit beater who likes to make some saw dust)
Rich
Jointer ranks amongst my favorite tools. In addition to straight edges for glue-up, it is also the first step on the "flat" before going to the affordable thickness planers (without a somewhat flat surface, the flex in the planer tables will not flatten a board). Since it is adjustable to "micro" depths (e.g. 1/64th), it cleans the blade marks off of rip cuts from the table saw and also is a good tool to trim width to exact dimensions. Also great for beveling since the fence tilts.
"Technique" takes some time to learn but once figured out it is a great tool.
I'm going to sound like a wet blanket here. First, the tools are a good deal for a "serious" woodworker who needs the tools and plans on doing woodworking for a lifetime. However, if you're just starting out, you may never develop to the point of using a shaper. It would make for an extremely expensive paperweight (others will argue you can sell it). I wouldn't even buy a $1200 cabinet saw starting out. My dad does good occassional project work with a craftsman contractors saw. They can be had for around $600. I started the same way, but have graduated to a cabinet saw. I would recommend graduating to larger and better tools as the need arises and your skill level develops. You'll have the opportunity to buy high quality tools at good prices, when you need them. It's not as cost effective if you end up buying a 15" planer, 8" jointer, and 3 HP cabinet saw anyways. It's just as bad to have a garage filled with $10,000 worth of tools that you don't know how, and will never use.
If he buys these tools for $1000, he can sell the shaper and still have much less than $600 in his cabinet saw. Where's the downside? Jon Larsson
I'd make that argument.
Your argumnehnt would be well made if he was starting out with new tools, but this sounds like an excellent buy. I have to assume he can afford it or he would not be asking.
I've been looking for about four years and have not run across a deal like that yet. I would have jumped on it. Mayber my time will come, but in the meatine, I enjoy using what I did buy.
But if you piad $5000 for those tools and can sell them for $7500, what is the downside?
It is cloudy now, but the sun will be out on Monday. I hope your blanket dries out.
>It's not much fun parking your car in the snow :-) My wife would be even less enthused. Many cold, cold winter nights. It's not just buying a shaper, it's buying the bits at $30 bucks a pop. I'd rather have a good router, router table, and bit set, especially just starting out. There's also the issue of 220 wiring. There's a cost associated with putting that in. The original author said the table saw was 220 volts. The doesn't mean it's a cabinet saw. I have a craftsman tablesaw, 220 aftermarket motor worth about $200. Does Rich have a dedicated space, or will he be dragging this jointer across the room when he needs it or purchasing mobile bases? Just my thoughts. Extra $$$ and inconveniences he may not have thought of. If he intends to go full out, it doesn't sound bad, but it really depends on the specific table saw, the condition of all the tools, space constraints, budget constraints and frequency of intended use.
Been using a Grizzly 1023Z table saw, a 14" band saw and a 2HP Dust Collector in my shop since 2000 and haven't had a single problem. Great stuff for the price!
Ed Boston Accent Furniture
Most weekend woodworkers really do not really need a shaper... and without knowing what kind of saw you are talking about there is no way I can comment...
HOWEVER.... mention 8 inch jointer and everyone who reads this newsgroup will have a heart that is fluttering and a mouth that is watering ....
Now mention 1000 dollars total ... and the heart goes into fibrilation...
Grizley offers some darn good machines especially for the price they seem to have a rep for requiring a lot of set up time and fine tunning to make them function well BUT once that is done they seem to preform quite well...
8 In ch Joiner..... lol.... Love to have one..Bob Griffiths
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