Grizzly Japanese Chisels

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The report is that he kept the angle where I put it at 25 degrees (came at about 20 degrees) and that they are OK if you are careful and only pare with them. Too much leverage and they will chip. Those from JWW may be better, I don't know.
snipped-for-privacy@igetenoughspamalreadythanks.com wrote:

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Okay thank you, I am getting the idea of the brittlness. What I will be doing is learning joinery, box and dovetail on smaller and thinner white pine, box joints first. So I will need a cheap carpenter's bench vice, a gent's saw and a miter box. But there are also those even cheaper Narex chisels made in C-Slovakia, made of chrom- olly steal, beach handles, ferruled and heavy steal hooped on top of the handles. I am wondering about the characteristics of chromolly for chiseling though, anyone know? It may be more of a springy steel that is not as brittle.
Thank you all very much for replying and helping, the good nature of people can be really great, and is as such now. I really appreciate it all, so I feel I owe everyone a good rib BBQ! I would if I could too, I have a great prep for the ribs, makes them awesome.
Alex
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On the other hand, the Narex's may be, and most likely are the common design of bevel edged (semi) firmer types, same as all the stanleys and buck bros. found in any hard- ware store these days. I will try and get a seller to email me a closer shot of a blade, and get back on it.
Alex
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There are some tradeoffs between the hardness of steel and it's brittleness. The Japanese solved this problem by making a thin layer of very hard steel (which is brittle) and backing that up with a less hard and less brittle backing. That's why they have two main layers. They also use a forging technique which applies thin layers on top of thin layers. It's an old technique but supposedly very good -- and labor intensive.
The non-Japanese chisel makers have tried to find a single steel that has the optimum hardness-brittleness characteristics.
Some of the knowledgeable chisle folks in thius group might be able to elaborate (or correct me if I'm wrong..)
I once read why they have hollow backs but don't remember -- seems like it had something to do with faster flattening....

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It sounds like the technique is based upon samurai sword making with it's iron/steel folding-to-layers techniques, which does increase strength superlatively. These less costly chisels are probably a very minor excersize of the same ideal, they should work well. You can see in the pictures at either link that they are hollowed backs. I think I means that over time, with use of a mallet, the hollows will actually flatten more and more toward the convex direction, and then easily controlled by keeping them flat (I imagine).
Alex
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wrote:

Yes. Many of the swordmakers turned to tool making, specifically chisel making after the Shogunate forbade Samurai from carrying swords.
Layne
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wrote:

Alex, I'd advise to spend just a little more and get the chisels hand made by chiselmaker Matsumura. You'll get great chisels from a renowned chiselmaker at a very good price. The Japanwoodworker brand chisels and the Grizzly chisels come from more obscure makers. You don't know who really made those chisels and their level of skill. You get what you pay for. Cheap Japanese tools are like cheap western tools...they're cheap. Matsumura chisels are a very good deal.

The harder carbon steel is very brittle and prone to chipping if not used properly. The softer, more flexible steel back supports the harder steel edge. The better Japanese chisels forge weld wrought iron to the steel. In even better Japanese chisels the iron comes from ship anchor chains that are over 100 years old. The reasoning is that they don't make chains like they used to, or at least the iron they're made from.

The reason for hollowing the backs is to ease flattening the backs. You don't have to remove as much material to flatten the backs. Eventually if you just honed the bevel yes, you'd run into the hollow. But, if you flatten the backs as you hone you'll wear away the hollow and have a flat section just behind the cutting edge. You can also tap out the hollow (carefully so as not to chip the edge) with a small square hammer designed for this purpose. Don't worry about this stuff too much. Good Japanese chisels need infrequent honing and it'll be a long time before you approach the hollow.
hope this helps,
Layne
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I have a set of these inexpensive chisels and i also have about four of the mid range chisels from japan wood worker for the price i think they are worth it especially if you are learning.
the advantages I see are they hold an awesome scary sharp edge a lot longer than a western chisel. I can consistently make paper thin curls on oak endgrain with my 1 inch japanese chisel long after my western ones wont cut butter if your work requires a lot of fine paring of joints such as making hundreds of hand cut dove tails in exotic wood i recommend them.
Whats the difference between the grizzly japanese chisels and other more expensive ones I doubt the grizzly ones are made by hand quality of fit and finish, the quality of the steel and the forging techniques is better. the prestige of owning a hand made tool with a master blacksmiths stamp on it
disadvantages
they are a bit shorter than western chisels they must be sharpened only by hand or a flat stone grinder like the makita, no grinding wheels they can be very very expensive if you get the ones made by master japanese blacksmiths if you abuse them or sharpen them wrong, the steel on the edge will chip

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