Gorilla vs. Ultimate Glue

I will be making a teak chest, so I figured it was time to try polyurethane glue.
Home Depot had "Ultimate" at half the price of "Gorilla". The Ultimate had a list of health warnings that made it sound like something I really didn't want to be using; while Gorilla said very little.
If they are the same thing I might as well save some money; but if Gorilla is really less toxic it seems like money well spent.
Anyone know about this?
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FYI
Gorilla glue has gap filling capability of ~3-4 times its original volume (Grrrrrrr). Of course I learned the hard way! DOH!
Bofus

polyurethane
had
didn't
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"Toller" writes:

polyurethane

had
didn't
Gorilla glue is an isocyananate based product.
Don't have a clue about the other stuff.
Isocyananates can be VERY nasty if not handled properly.
My suggestion is that if you are using real teak, use real teak adhesive, AKA: Epoxy thickened with a few micro-balloons.
West System epoxy, while expensive, offers convenience.
IMHO, Gorilla Glue is very much overpriced and under peckered.
YMMV.
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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Last week I was using epoxy glue and I ran out. I have a gallon of West epoxy, so I thickened it with some sawdust from a sander. It worked pretty well, though it was still a bit thin, so I might not have used enough dust. Are micro-balloons better? How? Thanks.
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Toller,
Micro Balloons will produce a weak bonding material. The finished material will dent and chip out easily and may not be what you are looking for. Chopped Cotton (Flox) is a much stronger filler and is more chip/dent resistant. Saw dust should perform in the middle of these two materials as long as it is the right consistency. Try to approximate the texture of Flox in your choice of saw dust (Try the shavings from your table saw). The procedure is to mix the filler in until you get a sticky paste that is not too dry. If you get too much filler in the mix add more epoxy to thin it back down. In composite aircraft assembly Micro Balloons are used as a light weight filler that will see no load, Flox is used in areas that will see light too moderate load. I have never seen Saw Dust used in a glass aircraft for obvious reasons. <g> I hope this helps.
Bofus

adhesive,
pretty
dust.
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"Bofus" writes:

Just curious, what book are you reading? I'd like to see the above in print somewhere other than on this list.
Trust me, after using about 1,000 lbs of microballoons at about 7 lbs/ft^3 to fair out my boat and glue a few things together, microballoons do not produce a weak bonding material for typical shear loads that adhesives normally see.
They do provide excellant gap filling properties.

If you need fibers, that is why chopped glass is available; however, not required in the normal adhesive mix or even for fillets.
Chopped cotton will absorb and retain water vapor which is definitely not swift in an epoxy application.

Garbage! ! !
Why waste good epoxy with sawdust?
Talk about a weak joint.
The sawdust offers no contributed strength value, but does add dead weight, which in a furniture application is of little concern.
Typically, people try to save a little money on microballoons by using sawdust as a filler.
When you can buy microballoons for about $0.60/lb in 30 lb bags, and epoxy can cost up to $60/gal, why bother?
Been there, done that.
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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"Lew Hodgett writes"

print
Lew, Start here,
http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/productinfo/guide /
note 407 (micro balloons I think), and please look here
http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/productinfo/guide/Filler_select.htm
Notice where micro balloons (407) falls in the strength chart for each type of bond.
Here is one from a boat fairing search I performed,
http://www.appliedpoleramic.com/epoxy-resin.html#Fillers%20for%20epoxy%20res in
Pertinent part,
Phenolic Micro Balloons - produce an easier to sand fairing material than Glass Bubbles or Microsphere, which is a benefit especially with large fairing applications. "Micro Balloons are unsuitable for use in high strength bonds".
For more info try this book.
Kitplane Construction by Ronald Wanttaja
ISBN: 0070681600
Another place to look is in the construction manual of any "Glass" Aircraft. (Glassair, Lanceair, LongEZ, Berkut to name a few). They have strict guidelines for use of all materials used in passenger carrying aircraft as mandated by the FAA.

Keywords "fair out my boat", to my knowledge this is not a high load application and strength is not an issue.

Agreed.
Chopped Cotton is a lot cheaper than Chopped Glass is it not? And according to the above application charts is a stronger bond than micro balloons.

This is good! I like it! I thought the fibers absorb the resin/epoxy mix to form a water tight material? If not there are a lot of Aircraft out there that better not get wet! Besides if this were true then don't you think that micro balloons would absorb moisture in the same application (like your boat)?

Since the above articles denote micro balloons as the weakest bonding filler why not use sawdust and save money? The strongest joint would be to use no filler at all, making the wood (or bonded material) the weakest link.

weight,
Moot point I guess.

Why not if strength is not an issue and the epoxy is the only thing holding the joint together?

Lew it's the MONEY! (and a trip to the store)
In closing I'm sorry to rain on your parade, I should have allowed you to answer the question and in typical Wreck fashion pasted you to the wall by nit picking your post apart as you attempted to do to me here. Please have a Merry Christmas.
Bofus
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Good information being presented on both sides from two knowledgeable individuals. Please continue. From what I'm reading - you're probably both right but simply discussing different applications. Nonetheless, it's a good read so far and we're learning.... This thread will get filed away for future reference.
Thanks,
Bob S.
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Don't tell me, you needed a good laugh! <g>
Bofus

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"Bofus" writes: http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/productinfo/guide /
Pretty much your basic Gougeon Bros catalog.

http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/productinfo/guide/Filler_select.htm
Again, standard Gougeon stuff.
If you go back and look, think you will find 407 is a very good epoxy filler for typical adhesive applications.

http://www.appliedpoleramic.com/epoxy-resin.html#Fillers%20for%20epoxy%20res
Pretty much a rehash of standard stuff.

Last time I checked, phenolic balloons were about $200/lb, strictly a race boat item where price is no object.
You have to define "high strength bonds".
Gluing a couple of wood together is a basic shear application, not a "high strength bonds" tensile application.

That and $5 gets you a cup of coffee in a cheap diner.

True, but if it chipped, it would be. After fairing compound cures, about a week, it is tougher than a bull's tool in fly time.

according
You don't use enough of the stuff to get excited about the price.
Think I paid about $60-$70 for a 10 lb box of 1/8" chopped glass over 10 years ago. Still have over 1.\/2 the box left.
Cost wise, it simply isn't a biggie. It gets lost in the wash.

to
that
You missed it.
Cotton absorbs moisture from the air prior to mixing with the epoxy.
Chopped glass doesn't have that problem.

filler
Garbage is garbage even if it is sometime called sawdust.
Again, the money issue is moot.
The cost of fillers as a percentage of catalyzed resin gets lost in the wash.
Why compromise the epoxy and build an inferior product?

Not true. The addition of microballoons to the epoxy mixture creates a far stronger bond than just epoxy can ever provide.
If you doubt this, assemble some test strips with just epoxy and some more with microballoon filled epoxy.
After they have cured, test the strips to destruction using standard test procedures.
Think it will enlighten you.

holding
Incorrect analysis. See above.

What money? See above.
You have a better chance of smelling an ameba fart from 40 ft in a hurricane than you do realizing any savings.

No rain, just setting the record straight.

a
The same to you and yours.
--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
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Lew,
IMHO enough on this already, the information has been disseminated to those that need it and they will make the final decision on usage.
Bofus
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One link I haven't seen, though I picked up the thread halfway through:
http://www.newwoodworker.com/gorilaglurevu.html
ken
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The original question was how Elmer's Ultimate glue compared to Gorilla. Seeing as Ultimate is half the price around here, I'd like to know, too.
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Bofus,
Correction to your statement so others will not think Gorilla glue can be used for gap filing - it should not be used for that purpose. While it does foam out and give the appearance that it can be used that way, the bubble walls (foam) are thin, no density or strength which would be needed in a gap filing glue such as found in an epoxy adhesive.
Bob S.

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Bob,
Understood, I was trying to point out the fact that it will foam and expand to 3-4 times its volume. Since we are all trying to get the best fit possible from our projects you can imagine my surprise (from the stupidity of not reading the label) when the Gorilla Dung expanded out from every joint I used it on. As you say using this stuff for gap filling would be futile if strength is required (but it will fill a gap there is no doubt in my mind on that). As Lew pointed out West Systems is a better choice for gap filling, except I would use Flox (Chopped Cotton) as the filler as it will give the strongest joint in that role. Please accept my apology to the Wreck Gods for not being clear in my original post. I bow to the superior intellect(s). ;)
Bofus

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I have tested them and gorilla out glues any poly glue on oily woods. plus it keeps longer. it has no thinner in it like others more solids.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
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Toller wrote:

Nope, but you ought to be able to get a manager at any store selling either of those products to go in the back and dig out the MSDS (Material Saftey Data Sheet) for you. That will tell you which one causes brain cancer and which one causes heart failure and stuff.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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Or just get a full HazMat suit and go for broke! <g>
Bofus

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