Gluing dowels

It's a little late to ask at this point, as I've already glued three of the four assemblies with the most dowels, but I've noticed some inconsistencies.

I'm doing this:

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to make four of these:

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I'm only using glue for the top and bottom rails, plus two of the eight "rungs" in-between. To leave as little work to do as possible during the open time of the glue, I first inserted all of the dowels that will not be glued, along with their respective "rungs".

The glue is Titebond I, the dowels store-bought, 3/8", fluted.

I drizzle some glue into each hole in the first stile and spread it onto the walls of the hole with a thin metal rod. Then I insert the dowels and tap them in with a mallet. I do the same procedure on the first end of each rail. I can usually wiggle the parts together without any added persuasion.

The second side is a different story, as I have to mate all of the dowels and holes at once. Beyond getting everything aligned, I think the slightly greater "waiting" time after applying the glue swells the wood inside the holes. (on the first side, I can apply the glue for each joint, then immediately put the parts together).

In any case, last night I glued up the third ladder assembly. There was a little more squeeze-out than I had expected on two of the joints, and I took a minute to wipe it down. (in previous projects I didn't worry as much, as all the parts were prefinished).

Possibly because of that (short) delay, I had a heck of a time getting the joints together, resorting to a heavier rubber mallet and some pretty energetic pounding. It worked out OK in the end, but it was worrisome at the time.

So I'm wondering if this is just par for the course and working quickly is the only recommendation, or if there are any other tips anyone can offer.

Reply to
Greg Guarino
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Are you using clamps to squeeze your rails tight to your stiles after you glue? It seems risky not to glue everything at once, square it, and clamp it.

Reply to
Michael

I'm not using clamps per se, but I am clamping and squaring the assembly with a jig and wedges:

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The jig consists of two straight-edges screwed down to the work surface at right angles to one another. Small blocks of 1x2 and shims provide the clamping.

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The first two assemblies went together square with no adjusting. The third was the tiniest bit out; there was a gap of maybe 1/32 between one leg and the jig. I used a clamp to snug that up and then applied the wedges as before.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

Open time appears to be your enemy.

Use a glue with an longer "open" time on the difficult side. Titebond "extend" is good to have on hand.

As previously noted, good clamps can do a better job of getting the parts together, particularly with a rubber mallet, which has too much bounce back, compared to a dead blow mallet, which takes advantage of inertia.

Don't have a dead blow mallet? Should be your next purchase if you're both fitting and glueing parts.

Reply to
Swingman

Nothing works quite like clamps. You get a lot of pressure with out pounding.

Reply to
Leon

Once the glue touches the other side of the joint it begins to set. With all of those dowels you have a huge amount of friction to overcome. Add to that glue that is setting and things get interesting.

An extended open time glue can help.

ALSO, Your dowels have ridges around the perimeter, ideally this allows excess glue AND air to escape. Works OK with a few dowels going together quickly but not so well when that are a bunch.

I flatten one side of the dowels with a disk sander to make a bigger path for the glue and air to escape. That will probably help more than anything.

Reply to
Leon

Clamps work better than hammers. IME, YMMV, HTH, HAND. Et cetera.

Reply to
dadiOH

After application, how much time does he have to get the piece set up? I looked up the specs on the Titebond web site, and I can't find it.

Reply to
Michael

Thanks. Interesting suggestions. I suppose I will have to find a space on the board for yet another mallet. And a longer open time glue sounds like a good idea for someone at my stage of anxiety, uh, woodworking.

As for "good" strong clamps, my selection is limited. I have a couple of Cabinet Masters and some pipe clamps. But the self-squaring "jig" has been of great comfort to me. I suppose I could rebuild it with "gaps" for the clamp jaws, but I think that might have to wait for a future project. I have only one more "ladder" to glue up, so I'll probably just tweak the system for now.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

I'll have to try that, but maybe on the next project, and maybe after I find a deal on a couple more good clamps.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

Well, I don't believe I would ever have thought of that on my own. I'm glad I asked. I don't have a disk sander, but I'm sure I could come up with some way to accomplish it. Maybe a vee shaped recess with a stop to hold the dowel, and a block plane? How much of a flat do you make?

Have you still got fingerprints, by the way? Those are awfully small objects to hold against a disk sander. :)

Reply to
Greg Guarino

Huh. But you do miss out on the psychic benefits of hitting something.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

---------------------------------------- Epoxy is your friend, 25 Min @ 77F pot life.

Lew

Reply to
Lew Hodgett

Except for the last assembly I did, I doubt there was more than three or four minutes between glue application (in the first hole) and fitting the pieces together.

Reply to
Greg Guarino

Greg Guarino wrote in news:lsdrpf$5tp$ snipped-for-privacy@dont-email.me:

I saw a tip in an old WOOD magazine where a fellow drilled a hole in the end of a piece of stock to hold a dowel. He then used the bandsaw to cut a groove in the dowel.

I'd probably go for the groove and stop, as it would seem to be much faster to make.

Puckdropper

Reply to
Puckdropper

Seriously, make a flat spot in the side of the dowel too it will relieve the compression that you are working against.

Reply to
Leon

IIRC the extend glue allow up to another 3~5 minutes of open time over regular glue.

Reply to
Leon

the flat spot is only one way, easy for me, you could also drill a hole down the center. It only needs to be large enough to relieve the compression that builds up in the hole.

I use domino's now. ;~) the beauty to the domino is that the side that receives the Domino first is an exact fit. A hammer over comes the resistance with each one placed one at a time. When bring the mating side though I use the elongated slot setting on the Domino mortiser to effectively relieve all possibility of compression.

IIRC I used my ROS to flatten the sides of the dowels, It does not take much at all. Hold the dowel with a pair of plyers.

Reply to
Leon

Instead of using something like Titebond, which is undoubtedly swelling the dowels during the assembly time (they're designed to do that, when used with a water-based glue), consider using something like Nexabond, which is not water-based and will not cause swelling in the dowels.

Tom

Reply to
tdacon

Clamps beat mallets everytime.

Epoxy takes a _long_ time to set up. So does plastic resin glue (Weldwood). So does resorcinol.

You could use clamps to assemble, then put it in your jig to square it up.

Reply to
dadiOH

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