Glue to repair delaminting plywood

I recently discovered that an area at the top corner of a swinging plywood door just below my kitchen sink has delaminated very significantly. The door is ~ 22" x 16". There's space up to 1/8 inch in some places and all told probably around 35 square inches of delamination. Unfortunately, dirt and dust has penetrated into the cravasses considerably. I don't want to replace the piece, which would be costly and I don't know where I would look for a replacement in any case. The edge of the door on 3 sides has a notch of ~3/8" x ~1/2", and I don't have a router (could probably borrow one, but I've never used one), so I'm loath to try to make a new door out of new stock.
I want to repair by cleaning in some manner and gluing and clamping, then refinishing the piece along with its companion door.
What kind of glue should I use? I figure I can clean in there some by inserting large pieces of sandpaper and pushing and pulling them and then shooting air into the crevasses. Not perfect, but it will help.
I was thinking of using either a wood glue or contact cement. Yes, I know that contact cement is unorthodox in something like this, but I love the stuff. It's very versatile and seems to be very tenacious once set. I'd use it outdoors to avoid inhaling the toxic solvents. However, I realize it might be a good time to buy a good all purpose wood glue, presumably a powder I mix with fluid (probably water). I tested my old container of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue yesterday and it turns to powder when "set" so I'll have to discard it. What are some good all purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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On Monday, May 23, 2011 8:22:47 AM UTC-7, Dan Musicant wrote:

Clean as best you can. Then work some glue in (just plain old white glue is fine, push it in with splinters if you have to). After it's dry (and still warped and delaminated), which will take a couple of days, use a hot clothes iron (with aluminum foil over the wood, to keep the finish from sticking to the iron) to flatten it. If you can arrange a pressure plate over the unflat bits, apply that while it cools down.
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After cleaning it out as good as you can I'd use the wood glue... You can use the compressed air to blow the glue between the laminations. Then clamp with cauls to ensure the panel is flat and that there is good contact. I did this recently so I know it will work!
John
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On 5/23/2011 5:21 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:

I have found that reglueing a failed glued surface can be almost impossible to fix long term Not sure if the repair eventually fails again because of (1) glue does not stick well to dried/cured glue, or (2) the failed glue that is still in there will fail again. My experience has been that you pretty much have to get back to bare wood and reglue.
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The exception being hide glue, but that's going to be impractical here.
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Laminate from two thinner sheets of ply, one 3/8" narrower than the other to create the rabbet.

If you still want to repair the old door, Gorilla Glue expands and will drive itself into any voids. It's also waterproof, ideal for a a sink cabinet door. Take extra pains to more heavily seal the top edges of the doors to prevent future water penetration. Shaping the edges leaves less of a ledge to catch and hold drips.
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Dan Musicant wrote:

You can't get there from here.
Time to build a replacement.
You can fight building a replacement until you get tired and give up, or just go ahead and get started on the replacement.
Your choice, but either way you are going to end up with a new door.
Lew
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. What are some good all

Dan,
I would strongly suggest epoxy. Something like this http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000342/9035/System-Three-5-Minute-Epoxy-Syringe-16-ounces.aspx
or any System 3 product.
It is very tolerant of crappy surfaces, moisture, dust, etc. and will glue almost anything to anything. - It does NOT need compression or pressure like normal wood glue. Wood glue will not make a good bond unless under pressure. - It does not need moisture like poly glue (Gorilla glue). Just an FYI that Gorilla glue is a great marketing campaign but is ALWAYS the least effective glue in any test I have ever seen it included in. - It won't expand like ploy glue and foam all over. - It is totally waterproof. - It is very sandable when cured.
Epoxy is my go-to glue for all wood repairs. I've used it in numerous cases and always had good outcomes.
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On Mon, 23 May 2011 16:17:51 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
:. What are some good all :> purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.:> :> Dan: :Dan, : :I would strongly suggest epoxy. Something like this :http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000342/9035/System-Three-5-Minute-Epoxy-Syringe-16-ounces.aspx : :or any System 3 product. : :It is very tolerant of crappy surfaces, moisture, dust, etc. and will :glue almost anything to anything. : - It does NOT need compression or pressure like normal wood glue. :Wood glue will not make a good bond unless under pressure. : - It does not need moisture like poly glue (Gorilla glue). Just an :FYI that Gorilla glue is a great marketing campaign but is ALWAYS the :least effective glue in any test I have ever seen it included in. : - It won't expand like ploy glue and foam all over. : - It is totally waterproof. : - It is very sandable when cured. : :Epoxy is my go-to glue for all wood repairs. I've used it in numerous :cases and always had good outcomes.
Thanks. I actually have a lot of experience with epoxies. I've used them for decades and always have it on hand. I have some 5 minute, one hour and longer setting resins. Maybe I should buy some rather than using what I have, such as the System 3 you suggest.
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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On Mon, 23 May 2011 16:17:51 -0700 (PDT), "SonomaProducts.com"
:. What are some good all :> purpose wood glues of this type these days? Thanks for the help.:> :> Dan: :Dan, : :I would strongly suggest epoxy. Something like this :http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2000342/9035/System-Three-5-Minute-Epoxy-Syringe-16-ounces.aspx : :or any System 3 product. : :It is very tolerant of crappy surfaces, moisture, dust, etc. and will :glue almost anything to anything. : - It does NOT need compression or pressure like normal wood glue. :Wood glue will not make a good bond unless under pressure. : - It does not need moisture like poly glue (Gorilla glue). Just an :FYI that Gorilla glue is a great marketing campaign but is ALWAYS the :least effective glue in any test I have ever seen it included in. : - It won't expand like ploy glue and foam all over. : - It is totally waterproof. : - It is very sandable when cured. : :Epoxy is my go-to glue for all wood repairs. I've used it in numerous :cases and always had good outcomes.
I like the idea of not needing pressure. The instructions with my old (!) container of Weldwood Plastic Resin Glue said minimal 50psi. I don't know just how much pressure that would mean turning the screws on my hand clamps, but it sounds scary. My test of the old glue completely failed. The powder mixed with water, lathered between two pieces of cleaned lath and clamped (moderately hand tight) and left in the sun for 6+ hours turned back to complete powder! Ack! It was as if I applied powder without adding water.
I'm truly torn between my original idea of contact cement and epoxy, but will probably go with the epoxy. This is the kind of thing you probably get only one chance on. Well, maybe more than one but I'd like to do something that works and holds up on the first try.
The link above is to 5 minute System Three, but I like the idea of longer setting and I found this one:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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Yup, that's actually what I use but I searched on t-11 for some reason and couldn't find it so offered the other. I was thinking of external ply(t1-11) I guess.
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D:
If you need to try to fix it, I add my vote to SP's for epoxy, particularly in light of the occasional 1/8" gap. And I'd listen to Leon: no wood glue.
Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to clean the sprung surface.
Throughout a process of any duration you will want to wet again with a solvent like Naptha-- or one otherwise suggested in answers--as long as you determine that is making any interference debris release as you mechanically attack it. My guess is grease and grit are not unknown in kitchens.
Obviously, your target is not to take out much healthy wood in the process. If you have one of those dangerous air-line vaccums or can tape a small plastic tube to a shop vac, make that a closing cleaning step. As an alternative, you could try blowing it out, checking you didn't leave any stuff binding.
I've done structural failure tests on quick and slow epoxies on rock. Slow performs better period and much better in wet environments. Part of the reason is time. The mers have much more of it to become thoroughly poly-merized.
The idea of blowing the adhesive in is new to me. And it's worth consideration. The only potential hitch I'd anticipate is dislodging a nice chunk of wood crosswise in a tight, delaminated area.
Use clamps on pieces of wood/plywood or clamps to sequentially pressure the placed adhesive from the inmost area outward to prevent trapping excess glue. I dont' imagine this door is real thick, so don't do anything to distort it from flat.
Clean up any excess and wait the duration prescribed by your manufacturer.
Good luck.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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On Mon, 23 May 2011 20:21:16 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
:Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen :up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever :thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to :clean the sprung surface.
The naptha (I have a gallon can, most of which I still have), will evaporate? Or will it absorb into the wood and eventually evaporate? Seems to me I don't want to apply epoxy to wood that is somewhat saturated with napthta. In my experience it is volatile but slow evaporating.
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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wrote:

D:
You are going to take the door off the hinges and do this, right?
Naptha has an odor. Women generally have a better sense of that then men. When you are finished with your solvent phase, let you door sit in the sun for an hour outdoors. Have someone with a good nose smell it. When the odor is gone, the infiltration is gone, without a residue of anything that will disturb ensuing steps.
However, you will find repairing this in the detailed, finicky and correct way specified a real misinvestment of resources compared to a new door. If you are indisposed to fabricate one yourself with a tablesaw or with a router and tablesaw, the cost of having a skilled party do this would be efficient unless you will treasure the restoration experience.
Call glass shops and ask who does their custom doors. Buy the wood. Call cabinet makers. Put an ad on Craig's List. If your edge step has an uncommon profile, perhaps a particular router bit will be needed. That will be about as complicated as this simple problem can get. The choices are yours but most people here would wisely start over. Trust me, after you've gone the hindsight route, you, regretfully would too.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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On Tue, 24 May 2011 08:08:02 -0700, "Edward Hennessey"
:
: wrote::> :> :Wet the gap with a solvent like Naptha to loosen :> :up any accreted gunk. Get right after it with whatever :> :thin, raspy and long tools or abrasive paper you have to :> :clean the sprung surface.:> :> The naptha (I have a gallon can, most of which I still have), will :> evaporate? Or will it absorb into the wood and eventually evaporate? :> Seems to me I don't want to apply epoxy to wood that is somewhat :> saturated with napthta. In my experience it is volatile but slow :> evaporating.:> :> Dan:> :> :> Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net: :D: : :You are going to take the door off the hinges :and do this, right?
Yes, I already removed the hinges, latch and magnetic plate, i.e. all the hardware.
: :Naptha has an odor. Women generally have :a better sense of that then men. When you :are finished with your solvent phase, let :you door sit in the sun for an hour outdoors. :Have someone with a good nose smell it. :When the odor is gone, the infiltration is :gone, without a residue of anything that :will disturb ensuing steps.
I have what I think is a very keen nose... and no women around :) I think I'll be able to tell when the naptha has _totally_ evaporated. : :However, you will find repairing this in :the detailed, finicky and correct way :specified a real misinvestment of resources :compared to a new door. If you are indisposed :to fabricate one yourself with a tablesaw or :with a router and tablesaw, the cost of having :a skilled party do this would be efficient unless :you will treasure the restoration experience.
I'm very dedicated to DIY, but I'm not nuts. However, I'd like to try a repair. : :Call glass shops and ask who does their :custom doors. Buy the wood. Call cabinet makers. :Put an ad on Craig's List. If your edge step :has an uncommon profile, perhaps a particular :router bit will be needed. That will be about :as complicated as this simple problem can :get. The choices are yours but most people :here would wisely start over. Trust me, after :you've gone the hindsight route, you, regretfully :would too. : :Regards, : :Edward Hennessey
If I decide on a new door I'll try to make it myself. I think I'm up to it, although I've never used a router. There's a tool lending library (free) a 2 block bike ride from my house and I can borrow a router there. They are also very nice friendly guys generally speaking and I can bring the door to them and get opinions on both how to repair (if feasible) or how to make a new one. I might do that before trying the repair just to get another set of opinions, WTH. What I'm not inclined to do is enlist the help of a professional for something on this order. I have zero disposable income and am constantly brainstorming how I can live more frugally. It's something I like, actually. Well, it forces me to be creative a whole lot.
The table saw I do have is home made from a bunch of scrap wood, a few hardware odds and ends, and a used clothes drier motor I bought for $5. It also functions as a grinder, it's more typical function, however I have used it as a table saw many times (with a 7 1/4 inch circle saw blade). I made an adjustable fence for it.
Dan
Email: dmusicant at pacbell dot net
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wrote:

D:
Funny, when I bring women flowers, I can never smell them and then they tell me to evaporate. Next time, I'll wear Eau de Naptha. That French touch....

A simple flat step could be done on the tablesaw in multiple passes (or with a dado blade) and finished with sandpaper or sharp chisels. A TS/moulding head would be another possibility. Then there's your router. Ask the guys at your tool library how to sequence operations and take steps to avoid finished tearout.

If you check the outbins behind cabinet shops, kitchen remodelers and the like, you just might luck into a free piece of wood fit for your purpose if this isn't a burning issue.
Best of results and regards,
Edward Hennessey
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