Glue Technique

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Hmmmmmm... My take so far is to glue both sides, as there seems to be no downside, and possible gain if both pieces are not wetted. Veneer or similar exceptions noted. I wonder if there have been any tests as to bond strength with only one side wetted? And I question the mfg saying do two sides, since there may be bias from their legal dept, or sales dept. Hmmm, this will take some more thought. Maybe glue some scrap, and see how it breaks apart.
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With polyurethane the "wet" water is the catalyst, it really does not do much other than activating the glue. If you applied glue to the wet side you start to get foaming and curing sooner than you might want.
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Personally, if Leon says he hasn't glued both sides and never had a failure, thats good enough for me. I've always glued both sides, or one side and rubbed the two together to get even distribution. Now I think the glue companies say glue both sides to sell more glue... 30 years experience trumps just about anything...
--
Jack
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I'm sure that's true. Personally, I glue as needed, and it depends on which glue I am using.
Glue has become such an integral part of my repair/remodel business, I think the only things we use more is screws.
If I am doing a utility glue, I only glue one side, unless the material is rough and porous like OSB or CDX. Most repairs, the same way. When I put a small broken piece of material back or attach a piece of trim, I just glue one side.
I still glue both edges when I do a layup, though. I don't worry about a "glue starved joint" or any business like that. No matter the amount of prep, the edges may not mate up to standards of invisibility when attached. I want glue in the hairline joint, no a void I have to fill later after sanding or planing. I think my odds of filling that tiny void are much better with both sides glued. Maybe not... but I know I am not alone; that's why we have colored glue, right?

Think about it. How many non-trades people use so much glue that they constantly replace their supply? How fresh is the glue that many DIYs are using? Think how many posts have been here about guys that are trying to make the remaining skinned over gel in their bottles work by heating, adding water, etc., instead of buying a new $4 bottle of glue.
I think the "glue both sides" part of the equation is to make up for poor technique and joining failure as much as possible. That way not enough clamp pressure, improper surface preparation, improper application, and maybe even stinginess with the glue can be at least partially overcome with glue on both mating surfaces.
Just a thought...
Robert
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Snip
I think the "glue both sides" part of the equation is to make up for poor technique and joining failure as much as possible. That way not enough clamp pressure, improper surface preparation, improper application, and maybe even stinginess with the glue can be at least partially overcome with glue on both mating surfaces.
Just a thought...
Robert
Actually my comments are strictly concerning furniture and cabinet grade building when referencing a single side glue application. If gluing construction grade I am not too sure that too much is "too much".
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I knew what you were saying, I just took the liberty to expand on it a bit.

Heh heh... no kiddin'.
When building a site built sandwich beam or a large header, I rely on TB II 100%. Plywood and wood become as one. Never seen one of those break or even deflect past the camber. Most of the time, not even that much.
On another track, I am a big fan of the old school liquid nails, but about 3 years ago tried the polyurethane tube glues. They seem to hold like hell, fill in gaps well, and dry hard and completely water resistant. The only downside is the tendency to creep and for the glue to seep out of the joints. So for structure work, or for something you will mechanically secure it's great. Works well on the back of hardened masonite panels if you run into that kind of paneling.
Have you tried any of those PU tube glues?
Robert
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When building a site built sandwich beam or a large header, I rely on TB II 100%. Plywood and wood become as one. Never seen one of those break or even deflect past the camber. Most of the time, not even that much.
On another track, I am a big fan of the old school liquid nails, but about 3 years ago tried the polyurethane tube glues. They seem to hold like hell, fill in gaps well, and dry hard and completely water resistant. The only downside is the tendency to creep and for the glue to seep out of the joints. So for structure work, or for something you will mechanically secure it's great. Works well on the back of hardened masonite panels if you run into that kind of paneling.
Have you tried any of those PU tube glues?
Nooouuu I have not, did not know that they existed. Are they expensive? Seems there would be a lot of poly glue in one of those tubes. I do occasionally use the masonite panels, the ones with the decorative surface on the other side. I starten using that stuff 20 years ago in our kitchen as a temp application to simulate a tile back splash. It is still up on the kitchen walls above the counter tops and still looks brand new. Does the caulk poly have a faster tack?
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No, I don't think so. I believe about $4.50 a tube. Liquid nails makes their version:
http://tinyurl.com/99uy2t
and Sonneborn makes one as well. The neat thing is that you can use them for just about everything.

There is! And a little goes a long way with this stuff, too. The good news is that if you make a mushroom cap of glue at the end of the tube when you are finished, you can pull it out the next day and continue to use it, so depending on what I am doing, I can usually use the whole tube.

That is what started me using this stuff. I was putting up thin masonite bead board that was hard polished from the presses on one side, and finished "Glacier White" backed enamel bead pattern on the other. I had to secure the top and bottom and glue the field because the a brad left a dimple *ugly) in a perfectly white and clean finish. I covered the bottom of the piece with a beaded screen so I could nail there, and the top with a really small chair rail. No glue only joints in the field have popped or moved in about 5 years.

Not faster than regular solvent Liquid Nails. Probably just a tiny bit longer on the poly stuff.
I like the poly for a lot of things because if its viscosity. For example, weather is cool today. With LN, a nice bead must be mashed out as it will be thick due to the cooler weather. Temps (until it gets really hot) don't seem to change the poly much, and it is really easy to work with. A nice bead of the stuff squishes down nicely with little effort, and no spring back like I have had with LN in cool weather.
The poly dries really hard and is impervious to water. Old faithful LN dries pretty hard, and is porous, making it susceptible to water damage if used outside.
Both still have a place for me in the tool box.
Robert
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Thanks for the info, I'll have to look for it and spearment with it.
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Liquid Nails has gone nuts with so many versions of what I think is the same product.
I don't understand that marketing method but it sure is confusing.
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

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I am thinking that the old formula stuff is all the same as well. Maybe a tiny bit of formula change to stay clear of litigation, but nothing significant.
In a pinch, I have used all the old solvent based stuff for anything as needed and never had a failure.
Robert
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I almost always just hit one edge except if I'm gluing something porous - like hardwood edging onto plywood. Then I hit the ply and the hardwood. (Except if it's wider edging - then I hit the ply, let it soak in for 30 seconds or so and then hit it again - and I don't put glue on the hardwood because I don't want to have to work to keep it just on the portion that will be attached to the plywood.)
That said, I glued up a long miter on site today and put a thin coat on both surfaces before clamping/taping. But for simple hardwood panel glue-ups I just hit one edge with just enough glue to give me just a little squiggly line of squeeze-out - not wider than say 1/16" wide on top.
Soooo.....I guess my answer is "it depends"!
JP
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hold like hell, fill in gaps well, and dry hard and completely water resistant. The only downside is the tendency to creep and for the glue to seep out of the joints. So for structure work, or for something you will mechanically secure it's great. Works well on the back of hardened masonite panels if you run into that kind of paneling.
Have you tried any of those PU tube glues?
Funny you should mention Liquid Nails.
My first below ground, tank farm, electronic liquid level inventory control and measurement system sold was to a Liquid Nails manufacturing facility.
Changes in EPA requirements made it less costly to build a new facility than to rehab the existing one.
In the SFWIW category, Sika is a major world wide player not only in marine, but also industrial sealants and adhesives.
There USA tech service is located in metro Detroit complete with an 800#.
Have always found them to be very much up to snuff when it comes to getting application assistance.
Also, their distributors will work with you.
YMMV
Lew
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When I was working in commercial work, we used an awful lot of "Sikaflex" and its cousins when pouring tilt panels. All the vertical joints were sealed with it, as well as the interior pad to panel connections. We had a company that did nothing else, and they drove up in trucks with 55 gallon barrels of that stuff on it and they used pneumatic caulk guns.
I think some of those guys were artists in their other lives.
As it is now, we use some of their products in waterproofing details. Between Sika and Sonneborn, I honestly can't think of better manufacturers of waterproofing products.
Robert
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wrote:

I thought about that. Use more glue, sell more glue. Experienced woodworkers know how much glue to apply. Glue dripping all over is both a waste and a mess. If I were applying to one side only, this would be the time to change and apply to both surfaces. A rubbed joint is almost as good as applying to both surfaces.
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On Jan 5, 3:19 pm, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

In a panel glue up that thick, the joint is so strong what difference is a theoretical couple of spots that didn't adhere going to make? Nil. But having more glue than you need contributes to the boards sliding around out of alignment, wastes glue, more cleanup. You could do it on both sides at just the ends if you really thought it would make a difference.
In a contest between glue spread out evenly on one side, and glue on both sides but just a bead run down without spreading, my money would be on the spread on one side being stronger.
-Kevin
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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

I use yellow Titebond 99.8% of the time.
I put glue on one surface...a bead in a sine wave shape.
When I mate them, I slide them (horizontally) into position then clamp.
If the glue had skinned a bit before joining the sliding/clamping breaks the skin and distributes glue.
If you get squeeze out (I always do) there is no "starvation". If you fear it, use more glue and clean off the squeeze out.
I have never had a joint fail.
--

dadiOH
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