Furniture prices

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On Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:41:46 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Not if it cost you $101 to make it.
And if it cost you anywhere near $100 I strongly suspect you'd either get tired of it or die of exhaustion before you reached that $900 profit you could have gotten finding that one person to buy it at $1000.
Of course if they don't want it in yellow then it's going to cost them a lot more than $100 anyway.
-Leuf
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On Feb 8, 2:41 pm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

Yabbut.. I already have a gizmo.
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You think that this design is simple?
This is a piece of CNC origami.
Look at the grain direction and ask yourself about how to accomplish the legs in natural timber.
Look at how the legs butt out on their interior edges to produce a squared section for joinery.
Ask yourself why the stiffeners on the obverse of the top run in the direction that they do, rather than the opposite.
It is an admirable visual concept containing a deceptive manufacturing truth.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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RE: Subject
I'm reminded of the comment about Hinckley yachts.
If you have to ask, you can't afford.
Lew
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Isn't that just curly maple? I think the grain is going in the normal direction while the "waves" creates the illusion the grain is going in the opposite direction.
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On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:08:14 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett

They claim it's cherry, and if it's "waves" note that they wrap around the leg.
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Well, I should have said "rays" instead of waves. And I did note the rays wrapped around. Rays do that. It's very nice grain, Note also that the rays are more distinctive at the top than the bottom. I'm talking about the leg shown in this picture.
http://www.greendesigns.com/images/dining/s2_dining_table_lg.jpg
Come on. Do people seriously think the leg was cut from a cut from a 36 inch wide, 6 inch long piece of cherry?
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On Sat, 10 Feb 2007 17:04:43 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett

I don't. But it would appear that it is cut from a 6 inch wide 36" long piece of cherry. Blowing it up reveals the true grain running up the leg, with the curl stretching across it, exactly like every other piece of figured wood I've ever used (except bird's eye, of course).
I fail to see where the confusion is here- though on further reflection, and once it's been blown up, I take back what I said about the design. Don't care for the way the aprons and stretchers are flush with the legs on the ends, while they are recessed on the front and back. Seems that they didn't spend much time matching the color of the wood, either.
All a matter of personal taste, I guess.
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Yup.
I suppose some people don't realize that curly grain is not just on the surface.
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On Fri, 9 Feb 2007 11:08:14 +0000 (UTC), Bruce Barnett

It's cherry, and I'm not talking about the figure, I'm talking about the grain. The timber for the legs was selected to maximize the look of the figure, rather than being selected for having grain run along the curve. This creates a short-grain condition, particularly at the bottom interior edge.
An even more exaggerated example of poor selection for grain direction is in the forward stretcher.
The bump outs on the interior edge of the legs are needed to make this overpriced piece of kit furniture able to be put together with those silly sliding dovetails.
Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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sorry, wrote obverse, meant reverse.
wrote:

Regards,
Tom Watson
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 /
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His patent is no more than a sales gimmick, just like his "green" pitch (made from organically grown timber watered with pure, unadulterated spring water and grown in a bed of reclaimed plastic soda bottles; made in a shop heated only by the sun, and meticulously produced by environmentally correct woodworkers wearing only Birkenstocks and natural fiber aprons, working exclusively with tools produced from recycled car bumpers).
You would not have to challenge his patent. Just reproduce what he has done and he would have to sue you to prove infringement. Then you could show that his "patent" is not worth a hoot. This joinery has been around for hundres and hundreds of years. It's pure American hucksterism and it sells.
Joe
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wrote:

That's the way it works in an ideal world. In the real world fending him off costs.

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wrote:

Eh?
From what I read this is so they can use a sliding dovetail. There's no reason they couldn't CNC a curved joint if they wanted to.

I have no idea what those are for.
-Leuf
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Tom Watson wrote:

My brother-in-law's psychiatrist ex-girlfriend bought into this stuff big time. It's factory furniture, unless you ask her. <G> She also went in big for these folks: <http://www.pompy.com/furniture/
I actually wasn't impressed with either company's work in person. I saw it as higher priced institutional (library, Dr's office...) furniture, and expected higher quality for what they get for it. As far as higher-end factory furniture goes, I see a much higher quality from Stickley, at a lower price.
I _am_ impressed with the marketing ability of Green and Pompanoosic, as the local Pompanoosic store seems to move lots of stuff.
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:>http://www.greendesigns.com / :> :>I'm looking at the S2 dining table, its a clean design I like but at $6k? :>Why so pricey for something this simple that I could make in a couple of :>days or am I living in the past? :> :>
: You think that this design is simple?
Pretty much, yah.
: Look at the grain direction and ask yourself about how to accomplish : the legs in natural timber.
Lessee... figured cherry, 10/4, cut the curves on a bandsaw, finish up with hand tools or a router and template. Keep the legs flat in one dimension to keep the joinery simple.
: Look at how the legs butt out on their interior edges to produce a : squared section for joinery.
Yes. A simplification to make it easier to build. A little less finesse and style than would have occurred if the maker did the joint with a continuous curve on the leg, and a joint to fit that.
: It is an admirable visual concept containing a deceptive manufacturing : truth.
No, it's a relatively simple design, made with very nice stock that isn't very well matched through the piece, and priced about five times over what a lot of other makers would charge.
But the guy did invent the sliding dovetail, so I guess he deserves it.
    -- Andy Barss
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On Sun, 11 Feb 2007 06:20:43 +0000 (UTC), Andrew Barss

Not THAT is a statement!
If "a lot of other makers" sell that table for $1200, they deserve to be broke.
$1200?? <G> Where are you live? I'll be there tomorrow to buy an 18 wheeler load of furniture to bring home and resell.
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A friend of mine walked into my office one day just in time to hear a recording of Pavarotti where he lets fly with one of his power finishes. My buddy said: "Meh..if I had a voice like that, I could sing like that too."
Now go take another look at that table. You are so right.. all you need is the material, time, machinery and talent, and you can make a table like that too. Never in 2 days though, even if you included 5 more dreamers like yourself.
Me? I think you're a troll.
r
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I was the OP and thanks for all the replies. Some of you guys are seeing the construction in much more detail that I could ever imagined so your comments are justified. However it wasn't my intention to duplicate an exact copy of this table including interlocking joineries and other details but using it as inspiration keeping the lines and shape clean and pleasing. I use a CAD program and a size E plotter so full scale parts will be drawn such that complicated geometry with compound curves and mating parts won't be much of a problem - thanks to CAD, not my solid geometry skills. Also I will keep things basic and without extension leaves. I'm sure I've underestimated the time as usual for projects like this but I'm also sure it will go fast once the pattern is fabricated if I decide to make more than one. For $6K I rather spend it on more tools.
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Nice figured wood, elegant, curved survaces and apparently traditional joinery- I'm thinking you may be living in the past. While I wouldn't feel right about charging someone that much for a piece like that either, when you consider what a regular POS table costs, $6k is about right for the increased quality and appearance that is obvious in that table.
Then again, you can make it in a couple of days, so you're lucky in that you don't have to care what someone else is charging for it unless you want to! :)
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