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"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message

Rudy G

of
You may be right, but thus far I've either been damn lucky, or a pretty good judge of character based on words and actions, even from afar.
My basis of respect for Rudy G is the same I had as the white, Southern boy CO of a combat unit in SE Asia, for my black, Northerner 1st Sgt.
He was a _man_ in the finest sense of the word, with a world of uncommon sense, who did his job of keeping those below (and above) him alive in a calm, competent manner that you will never forget, and that you will recognize instantly the minute you see it again.
(Bless your peapicking heart, Top ... I hope happiness dogs your days, wherever you are.)
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Swingman wrote:

...
...
I agree--he definitely has a projection about him...
One last observation, though. As terrible as it was in NYC, it was only a small area in the heart of the city <directly> affecting something like 20,000 people. In actual scope of the disaster and immediate consequences it was minute compared to NO in particular and the Gulf Coast in general.
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Duane Bozarth (in snipped-for-privacy@swko.dot.net) said:
| I knew after I sent it I didn't word what I meant well...it's one | thing to <know/predict> it's yet another to really envision what | actually occurs. I think there's a conceptual leap there virtually | impossible to grasp as it is so far beyond the expected. Just as | the complete destruction of the areas hit by the Tsunami was | <known>... | | And, yes, I'll agree there has been apparent slow response--why and | who I'm not up to assessing at the moment and don't think it does | anything constructive <at this point>...
It'd better, there are at least two more hurricanes a-brewing at the moment. Preparation of emergency plans is *not* a leisure-time play-group activity.
Furthermore, even with forty-leven levels of contingency planning, two major components of leadership are thinking on your feet and readiness to do what's needed - without dithering, delay, or posturing. With stockpiles of combat rations, water, and tents we should have been seeing massive air drops of supplies into Gulf states' drop zones within hours of Katrina's passage - with an immediate ramp-up following the levee failures.
The size of the disaster cannot be an excuse for failing to take immediate and effective action.
I'm absolutely floored that none of the cellular service providers has thought to set up temporary "towers" for emergency communications.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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"Morris Dovey" wrote in message
**> Preparation of emergency plans is *not* a leisure-time

**> two major components of leadership are thinking on your feet and readiness

I am beginning to suspect that we could do worse than making a calculated effort to replace the current crop of "emergency management" _leadership_, at the national and regional levels, with a core of seasoned, ex military combat leaders. I doubt there is anyone in this country, as a group, who is better trained and more qualified to think, plan and react as you point out ** above.
Just imagine how effective FEMA could be with a Schwarzkopf in charge instead of a politically favored lawyer.
With all the damn wars we've involved ourselves in, just in my lifetime, there should be a few of them around.
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Swingman (in snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com) said:
| I am beginning to suspect that we could do worse than making a | calculated effort to replace the current crop of "emergency | management" _leadership_, at the national and regional levels, with | a core of seasoned, ex military combat leaders. I doubt there is | anyone in this country, as a group, who is better trained and more | qualified to think, plan and react as you point out ** above. | | Just imagine how effective FEMA could be with a Schwarzkopf in | charge instead of a politically favored lawyer. | | With all the damn wars we've involved ourselves in, just in my | lifetime, there should be a few of them around.
Sadly, it's not just FEMA (who, as far as I can tell, are simply incapable of serving in any kind of "first responder" role) but the same pattern of behavior that the administration displayed in the tsunami disaster.
That pattern looks a lot like: 'Lets wait a week or three and see how many are left before we do anything - it'll be cheaper if we just let the weak ones die where they are.'
On the news last evening I heard black leaders opining that help had not been forthcoming because so many of the victims were black. I don't believe that's the case - and that the results would have been exactly the same for /any/ racial mix. Either way, it's not America at its best.
Cheaper indeed.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Morris Dovey wrote:

Yes, well, it's not blackness that's the problem, or so I think. It's money. If you got money, you got help. If you don't got money, you don't got help. Period. Now, this tends to apply more to blacks in some areas (especially the deep south) than it does to whites, but IMO, George Bush cannot even SEE people who are not neat, clean, well dressed and making at least a quarter mil a year. Didja check out his hugs going to the people when he was in New Orleans? For a place with no water and no clean clothing, those were amazingly polished up huggees. His "people" probably want to make sure the King George is not offended by body odor.
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I've been watching an antenna being put up. It is not all that fast and simple and you need power to do it. AND, it must be connected to land lines at some point.
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Edwin Pawlowski (in Hp9Se.3056$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net) said:
|| I'm absolutely floored that none of the cellular service providers || has thought to set up temporary "towers" for emergency || communications. | | I've been watching an antenna being put up. It is not all that fast | and simple and you need power to do it. AND, it must be connected | to land lines at some point.
Glad to hear that they're working on it.
I've only installed VHF repeaters; but the installation should go rapidly (the only power we needed during installation was for fine-tuning the duplexers). Land line connection could be remoted using a (direct) microwave or (indirect) satellite link to the connection point. Site it on the tallest stable building and get it on the air with a pair of portable generators.
Or is it only this quick and easy for amateurs?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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wrote:

Cell sites aren't repeaters. Repeaters are simple.
As you know, repeaters take a signal in, and retransmit it. Cell sites connect cellular phones via radio to the rest of the world.
Cell sites are connected back to a switch, usually via a T1, DS3, or some sort of optical link. The site needs to be built in the switch database, and the switch needs to know about the adjacent cells. The site also needs quite a bit more commercial power than a ham repeater.
The difficult part is providing enough bandwidth back to the switch, and the fact that all of the central offices, possibly including the cellular switch in the area, are down, and all the cables are submerged.
Non-telco cell companies depend on the local telco to get site signals back to the public telephone network. Also, most towers are now collocated. Lose a tower, lose all of the brands on it in that area.
Barry
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Ba r r y (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| wrote: | || Or is it only this quick and easy for amateurs? | | Cell sites aren't repeaters. Repeaters are simple. | | As you know, repeaters take a signal in, and retransmit it. Cell | sites connect cellular phones via radio to the rest of the world. | | Cell sites are connected back to a switch, usually via a T1, DS3, or | some sort of optical link. The site needs to be built in the switch | database, and the switch needs to know about the adjacent cells. | The site also needs quite a bit more commercial power than a ham | repeater. | | The difficult part is providing enough bandwidth back to the switch, | and the fact that all of the central offices, possibly including the | cellular switch in the area, are down, and all the cables are | submerged. | | Non-telco cell companies depend on the local telco to get site | signals back to the public telephone network. Also, most towers | are now collocated. Lose a tower, lose all of the brands on it in | that area.
Yuppers - I understand the difference in circuit complexities.
As a first response measure, an isolated (independent) cell that connects all calls to an EOC "help desk" would be a major improvement over no communications at all in the initial period following a disaster. Full-feature operation for health and welfare traffic can wait a bit longer than a family trapped in their attic by rising floodwater.
FEMA maintains multi-mode/multi-channel communications centers in at least state capitols (I was the volunteer operator for the one in Des Moines during our '93 flood) that are capable of providing the initial essential disaster communications with the outside world. These, too, are more complex than most ham stations but were pre-packaged in a single rack unit that could be relocated by truck or helicopter - and even operated by people without equipment-specific training.
A ham repeater doesn't require (isn't allowed) much power and most that I've seen used 12V auto/truck batteries for immediate backup - does a cell site require more than the 2-5kW available from a small portable generator?
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

I know Cellular One / Cingular used to be able to move "mobile cell" trailers in for disasters, etc. Power would be self-contained generators of land lines. Your point about the land line connection is valid though I wonder if they've worked out some sort of wireless relay or satellite feed by now.
Used to be - with the older cellular infrastructure systems - they could assign priority codes to LE cells to cause the system to drop "non-essential" communications in deference to calls initiated by LE/FD/Rescue. IT was explained to me that this came about, at least in part, due to the media showing up on scene, dialing up their newsrooms and then just keeping the line open for the duration (lest they get "scooped"). Remember way back then they didn't have digital and, while I forget the number of frequencies available in any given cell, it was certainly less than 45 or so.
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(snip)

(snip)
Actually, there was an article in the NO Times-Picayune in 2002 that is an incredibly accurate prediction. See http://www.nola.com/hurricane/index.ssf?/washingaway/thebigone_1.html
Steve
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Steve Peterson wrote:

My point is it is one thing to predict analytically, yet another to create enough belief to react in such scope <prior> to the event. It is so incredible and so out of character it is simply beyond most to imagine and so they can't bring themselves to go far enough in their actions. Wise? No. Human nature? Yes.
Place yourself in the position even if you had read the predictions and with very limited resources and what seem to be far more pressing issues. Can you honestly say you would have unequivocally devoted sufficient resources to the far-off "one day"?
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Anyone above a half-wit in NOLA knew this was inevitable, just as anyone above a half-wit living in California knows the Big One could hit tomorrow.
What astounds me is how poorly prepared the agencies (civic, state and federal) appear to have been, and how quickly the facade of civilization collapses.
Here in Canada we joked about our army being mobilized a few years ago when Toronto got hit by a freak snowstorm, but the fact is they were mobilized in hours, responded in hours and the operation was a success.
WTF is going on along the gulf coast? It's been FIVE DAYS and relief is just arriving...
--
Life. Nature's way of keeping meat fresh. -- Dr. Who

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Dave Balderstone wrote:

Two words: "magnitude" and "logistics"
Don't forget some people would have been rescued from their homes had the good folks who volunteered to go in with boats not been fired upon. Snipers have been firing upon doctors still stuck downtown at hospitals. Would you stroll down there as a good Samaritan to pluck someone out of the flood if chances are you'd get blown away by one of the nut cases? Much of the relief effort has had to be diverted to reestablishing law and order. The damage turned out to be much worse than expected, so cut the authorities who are working nearly 20 hours a day, a bit of slack. How have you helped out? If you aren't part of the solution, then you must be part of the problem. Corrupt NO police contributed to the quickly escalating anarchy. Some of them went so far as to turn in their badges (probably the same one's seen looting on camera?).
Dave
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"Dave Balderstone" wrote in message

Pretty damn unbelievable, I agree.
However, as bad as it is, it _is_ heartening to see the reaction here in Houston from many. Made four trips to a Red Cross drop-off point in my truck thus far today, carrying clothes, canned goods, games, toys, blankets, towels and every imaginable type of hygienic item, all donated by folks on just the few streets surrounding mine. An e-mail to my immediate neighbors this morning saying that since I had a truck, I could easily do a 'pickup and delivery' for those who were unable, next thing I know I have a mini-pickup point on my hands. The same thing is going on all over this city.
When I get to these two drop-off points, the multitude of ORGANIZED volunteers, from little kids to senior citizens, working to feed and clothe the "refugees" here would make you feel a lot better that things are more swiftly being addressed than you're going to see on the news.
I just watched a BBC newscast that had a decidedly political spin to it ... really pissed me off after what I've seen here all day.
That said, I agree with everything you say.
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On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 15:08:13 -0600, Dave Balderstone

1.) Shear magnitude. It's not just New Orleans that's in trouble.
2.) Toronto & NYC weren't underwater.
3.) No one was taking pot shots at relief aircraft, cops, & boats in NYC & Toronto.
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Bull. This was predicted YEARS ago.
It's not like we're talking about a comet striking the gulf. We're talking about a cat 4 hurricane.
You can't keep a straight face and tell me this is a surprise.
Can you?
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Dave Balderstone wrote:

Predicting that a catastrophe will hit doesn't change the difficulty of getting into the region to pluck people off of rooftops or reduce the danger posed by snipers.
Dave
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David (in snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com) said:
| Dave Balderstone wrote: |
|| || ||| 1.) Shear magnitude. It's not just New Orleans that's in trouble. || || || Bull. This was predicted YEARS ago. || || It's not like we're talking about a comet striking the gulf. We're || talking about a cat 4 hurricane. || || You can't keep a straight face and tell me this is a surprise. || || Can you? || | Predicting that a catastrophe will hit doesn't change the | difficulty of getting into the region to pluck people off of | rooftops or reduce the danger posed by snipers.
So?
Difficulty simply means that more effort, persistance, and determination are required to get the job done.
Danger simply means that more courage is needed to do the job.
If you don't think those people are worth the effort, I disagree. If you think the danger is too great, then make it possible for /me/ to go help get the job done - not that I wouldn't be scared spitless; but because I'd rather accept the danger than have those people die.
FWIW, being shot *at* doesn't mean becoming a casualty.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
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