Swingman seems to have different inside information, but you are correct--in a massive disaster such as this, they need to get a lot of ducks lined up before they can start making use of volunteer help, and that takes time. The last thing they need in there now are a lot of good intentioned people who don't know diddly about emergency operations.
Being from SE Louisiana, having gone through numerous hurricanes and floods of catastrophic proportions, losing a home myself to floodwaters, and talking to relatives in the area as late as this morning, what I obviously know a lot more about than you is that folks are continuing to help each other where there are not enough "emergency managers" to go around, despite what you may hear from the talking heads. politicians, and FEMA bureaucrats on TV, which is where you are obviously getting your information.
Lord help anyone who subscribes to your "don't try this, we're the professionals", attitude in the face of emergencies. These folks, especially the ones outside the view of the TV cameras, are resourceful and there are damn few "bubbas" in the part of the country, and NONE in an emergency of this proportion.
So basically LRod, stick your condescension about "crackers" and "bubbas" where the sun doesn't shine.
Well, you got something right ... plenty of relatives in the middle of it right now.
Again, you're full of horeshit for the most part, LRod.
Many in the area, particularly between NO and Venice, including two of my first cousins with air-boats, and their sons with bass boats, have been working around the clock plucking folks from the floodwaters, and their participation has certainly never been questioned by anyone trying to "get a lot of ducks lined up before they can start making use of volunteer help".
If you knew the folks in that part of the country, many who don't even speak English, you would realize that you are so dead wrong in your assumptions that it defies reason.
You can stick your condescension, too, scooter. There is a whole lot of difference between people in the field getting to work with what's at hand and bringing (or not) people in from the outside. You still don't know squat about emergency management, and it shows.
Thanks. I've only had training in emergency management and practices for a little over 40 years, and personal experience with hurricanes for nearly 25; I was involved with the Plainfield tornado and the Aurora flood; so I can see where someone might mistake me for a know-nothing.
And, I can drive in snow...
Look again, "Bubba", my original response was clearly, and solely to your:
... and said nothing about "people in from the outside". As I CLEARLY stated repeatedly, this is about folks helping each other, folks already there, and on the ground, using whatever is at hand to rescue folks who may not make it if they waited for the "emergency managers to get to them.
surely you can't be that dense?
Don't waste your breath. He knows all about everything. I was going to post the same response as you did, but knew he'd chirp in there with his rubbish.
Look here for a report:
...and tell me a few hundred people dragging boats and motor homes [they have to stay somewhere] around wouldn't get in the way.
If people want to send food, don't take it, find out what is needed and where to send it to the people who are able to distribute it as necessary. There is far more harm than good done by willing people thrashing around and getting in the way of the real resuers. If he wants to be a hero he should be there now, having gone first to the proper authorities to ask them, instead of jumping when someone snaps their fingers in a newsgroup as if its the right thing to do. It's not. I know people smothered in lime-dust as others stomped around their old farm-house trying to rescue them after it had been flattened as they hid in the basement.
If anyone wants to go there with a boat, clogging up highways and motels even more, then do so under the direction of people who know what they are doing, so as to not get in their way. Don't just barge in like an idiot, well-intentioned, but still an idiot. People should be sure they have something to offer to not waste their time clogging up phone lines. If they want your help they are asking elsewhere, not here. People should go there, and act responsibly.
You are clearly not one of those, so keep your unprofessional opinions to yourself. Those better prepared will undoubtedly make some mistakes, but there'll be a Hell of a lot fewer than those caused by a bunch of cowboys running around as if they knew what they were doing. If you do try to go there with a boat you'll be stopped on the highway. You'll accomplish nothing but clogging up the roads and motels for people who really need them.
My brother and I tried to get to New York for his daughters. We couldn't get anywhere close as police blocked the highways. What do you think would be different here? Damn. I asked for your opinion. Well, you can give that for what it's worth. [ By the way, they got out and arrived home in NJ before we did.]
I can see this from both sides. Yes, the hams are good for organization and communication but someone has to make use of this information. That's where the boats come in. Both quite needed.
There's only one side ... saving lives. The news here tonight was full of stories, and pictures, of folks being picked up off of roofs and second floors by "someone who came by in a boat" ... IOW, quite a few folks are alive/safe tonight because someone other than the "emergency managers" came to the rescue.
As for the snide, derogatory "bubbas in bass boats" comments from the high and mighty, who are also high and dry, that simply points to complete ignorance of the marine nature of much of the populace outside the bigger cities in SE Louisiana, where almost every house has a boat behind it, many of them actually floating year around. To advocate not utilizing a resource like that during _floods_ is criminal ... but then again, and from very personal experience during a flood, not surprising.
After having lost my home in a flood four years ago, I remain to this day totally unimpressed with "emergency management" types. AAMOF, if you've been through that in the last ten years I can guarantee that you would recognize some of the smug, superior-than-thou, know-it-all condescension exhibited right here today that was noted and remarked upon after Allison in 2001 ... where about as much "management" attitude as a Harvard MBA was exhibited, but with barely the skills of a Home Depot manager-in-name-only.
Case in point as we speak: the looting and lawlessness going on right now would have been foreseen by any "emergency management" leadership worthy of the name and they are going to have to answer for it, you can bet on that.
It's becomming very clear that LRod has a better understanding of the overall picture.
Having watched this little tete e tete, my only thought is that all those people sitting on the roofs of their homes waiting to be rescued before the home collapses are going to be darned glad that the emergency managers took the time to line up all the ducks and hold the volunteers before actually sending someone out to *gasp* rescue them from those roofs. They'd be real disappointed to be rescued sooner by rank amateurs with no clear direction or guidance from above.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
But they won't *really* know whether to be happy to be rescued or not until the power comes back up and they can research it here on Usenet.
Lee
Not unless he's sitting on a roof top waiting to be rescued.
Agreed. It looks to be coming down to a basic political philosophy ... you're either the type to sit around waiting for guidance from the all-knowing authorities/government to help you, or you help yourself, and those around you, by taking action yourself. There is little doubt that it's the former that's got us into much of the mess you see about you now, aftermath of hurricanes and natural disasters inclusive.
I can tell you that I gained a new appreciation for that old saw about the feared phrase "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" when it happened to me.
.. and it would be politically incorrect to tell you what most down here felt that the acronym "FEMA" really stood for after Allison in 2001. I still get pissed when I am forced to recall that experience.
You guys should get some training in acting like grownups instead of using everything you can to start a childish argument.
-- J.C.
Thanks, mom. More name calling is just what was needed to whip everyone back in line.
I hope like hell I'm reading it wrong, but it appears at this point that these highly touted hereabouts "emergency managers" seem singularly ill-equipped and ill-prepared to handle this emergency.
(Seems reasonable to expect that much of the work of these supposedly highly trained "emergency managers" would have been spent in "lining up their ducks", which seems to be their singularly most important function, before the fact.)
I am beginning to suspect that, just like the last time with many of those with the attitude that only they know what's best for us, a lot of money has been wasted on this supposed "emergency management" leadership.
My partners in two businesses and I decided yesterday to open up any spare rooms we have in our homes here in Houston, and in one case a summer home, to refugees through a local church and synagogue jointly handling the listings. SWMBO, and couple of neighbors spent the morning gathering clothes and are heading to a Red Cross distribution point as I speak.
ITMT, if any of you see an opportunity, besides the preaching, to pitch in and do something similar, it may make just as big an impact with the displaced as what the "professionals" seem to have been able to accomplish in many respects.
... and instead of shooting looters, it would probably be more productive over the long haul to aim at the politicians who don't seem to miss an opportunity to get their mugs on TV.
While it seems that things are moving slowly, this is a disaster of proportions comparable to the San Franscisco earthquake and the Chicago fire. In all fairness I'm not sure how much could have been prepared for a disaster of this magnitude.
I am surprised it has taken so long for the National Guard to show up. It is also, however, quite disappointing to see the apparent lack of motivation by some of those affected by the disaster to take steps to help themselves out of the situation rather than help themselves to unguarded electronic equipment. And then to start shooting at the rescue choppers? What are these people thinking?
Good for you.
A donation through our church body (Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod) is going out this weekend; it will be matched $1 for $2 by an associated fraternal benefit organization (Thrivent). At this time, it appears that monetary donations may be one of the best ways for those of us far removed from that area to help.
Well, while open season on politicians (of the other persuasion of course
-- whatever persuasion you happen to be) is sometimes an appealing thought, I now understand why, in times past, there was no quarter given to looters. By either ignoring or not responding with force earlier, the people who should be doing work helping rescue victims are now having to act like guards and watchmen -- a tragic waste of time and potential cause of additional loss of life by innocent civilians because the police can't be performing rescues of those trapped in the various areas of the city. I would not be surprised if "shoot to kill" orders aren't given in the not too distant future if the anarchy being reported continues. Hopefully this is a case of the media latching on to the bad and overlooking all the good happening.
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Shouldn't Jesse Jackson be meeting with Mother Nature about now?
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