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Hi Noons. Good ta see yer voice.

Nah. I deal with four different factories in Shanghai and send Excel sheets back and forth all the time, without a problem.
Ya know why? Because it is the "defacto standard" for those who do business with the West.
Bwahahaaaaa...hee....hee...gurgle gurgle...
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)
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Tom Watson wrote:

LOL!
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wrote:

But there is a pretty good chance that in a year or two it will be opened by a spreadsheet program running under Linux...
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booted his butt out of National Cash Register when he got some crazy idea about punching holes in paper cards. Then again, mid 60's at some kind of company picnic in Dayton, one guy said "It used to be IBM, but now it's just BM, because I left".
--
Nahmie
Those on the cutting edge bleed a lot.
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Joe Wilding wrote:

Hmm. And perhaps the essence of /good/ leadership lies in being able to determine which of the possible directions for movement really is "forward".
--
Morris Dovey
(Who didn't follow when "forward" was redefined from "producing
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"TWS" wrote in message

OK, my friend, let's look at just whose "viewpoints" are indeed "shallow". We'll take them one by one, from your very first mistake: posting about something of which you obviously have only limited knowledge, a point which you indeed prove.
For someone who supposedly "attended meetings" on USB (which YOU brought up and tried to shoehorn into context), you appear to have slept through most of them.
MSFT was only a small part of the consortium that brought USB into being. Try Compaq, NEC, Northern Telecom, IBM, Intel and Digital as "CO-DEVELOPERS" of the USB protocol as we know it today, NOT as you suggest something MSFT "tried to force down the throat ..." (sic).
(That is an actual, and inarguable, FACT!)
With regard to "Apple" and networking ... to suggest that AppleTalk is a "networking standard" in the industry is as laughable as it is ridiculous.
(And that is a reality based FACT, which only a fool would argue against.)
But, where you really give yourself away is with your comments regarding "DHCP" and "DNS":
DHCP is a protocol for IP NETWORKS and was created by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), the body responsible for Internet protocols, NOT MSFT!
(That, again, is an inarguable FACT!)
The fact that Apple talk does not use DHCP is a red herring introduced by you, as AppleTalk is NOT an ip network! (see above)
(Also an inarguable FACT!)
And without DNS, even a Apple/ Mac couldn't get anywhere on the Internet without knowing the ip address of every machine it wanted to visit.
(Another, absolutely inarguable, FACT!)
Now, as I originally indicated .. judging from the factual errors in your original diatribe, I'd say your "scars" are solely a figment of your imagination, and well you should have been "sheepish", as you admitted, for even stepping up on the soapbox with that kind of misinformation.
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discussion is irrelevant because the answers are dictated in the back room through force of the MDA.

PC suppliers to ship USB hardware before the technology was finished or proven. A tremendous number of PC mfr service calls (in fact a couple of class action lawsuits) were generated in 1995 through 1998 simply because the equipment had this USB feature that no one could use. That is a fact.

Intel, with very restricted rules regarding Intellectual Property (IP) and process that prevented anyone who had significant IP to contribute from participating without giving away the family jewels. In fact IBM did not participate in the consortium, despite claims in the spec to the contrary, for precisely this reason. That is a fact. There are numerous other examples of this practice.
You will find that the MO is for MS to avoid participation in real standards committees where the implementation is not guaranteed and subject to public debate and, instead, takes one of two paths: either publish the spec as a Windows specification - take it or leave it (and if the industry is real lucky the specification accurately represents their implementation which is rare), or set up a consortium where the outcome is controlled and gives the appearance of a democratic collaborative process.

networking standard. I said that Apple shipped the ability to network between devices without hassle long before MS ever did, using IETF standards or otherwise. Maybe if you read what I said rather than what you think I said we would actually get somewhere with this discussion.

TWS
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"TWS" wrote in message

Perhaps if you had known more about what you were attempting to say, and had been more factual in presenting it, the outcome would have been different for you.
As it is, _you_ introduced every single word of the irrelevant BS about "AppleTalk", "USB", "DHCP", and "DNS" into the discussion, yet you remain unable to defend a word of it.
End of story.
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Appletalk is protocol #1 as defined in the PPP protocol configurations option ID field..
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"Bruce" wrote in message

PPP being basically an "encapsulation" protocol for point to point serial communication, for configuring TCP/IP over PPP, and being "apples and oranges" when it comes to AppleTalk network layer protocol, I am not sure what your point is, nor what the relevance is, with regard to the statement above?
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Basically there is no "networking standard". A lot of protocols, but with infiniBand, firewire, Myranet, etc. there really is no "standard", just a bunch of choices.
-Bruce
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"Bruce" wrote in message

... you might want to inform the IETF of that fact.
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Sure there's standards. The wonderful thing is there's so many of them ;)
Allen
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"Allen" wrote in message

You're right about that, but more in a _local_ sense ... and they're getting fewer all the time, thanks to the "mother of all networks", which certainly has specific "standards" that dictate that 'if your local network wants to play, you do it this way'.
IOW, disparate networking protocols, desiring to communicate over the global Internet, better follow the "networking standards" found in the Internet Protocol Standards Index.
So, in effect, the contention that there is no "networking standard" today is arguably nearsighted in a global sense.
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On Fri, 18 Feb 2005 20:41:57 -0700, Swingman wrote

They don't seem very interested in network standards.
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"Bruce" wrote in message

Actually, if they there were NOT, as you say, "interested in network standards", your above *opinions* would never have appeared here ... think about it. ;>)
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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 09:05:26 -0700, Swingman wrote

Seem they are interested in "internet" standards.
Internet is a network, a network is not necessarily an internet.
I can network all sorts of devices with products from a wide range of vendors. Are they capable of being hooked up to the internet? probably not unless I adhere to internet standards. Are they still a network standard? yup!
-Bruce
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"Bruce" wrote in message

Read what I said earlier about disparate networks, then tell me that being bogged down in semantics is not causing your myopia.
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On Sat, 19 Feb 2005 22:17:33 -0700, Swingman wrote

Hmmm, I googled "disparate" and got no hits. I jumped in on your statement that Appletalk (ATCP) is not a standard when even the IETF has a working group dedicated to it.
Of course it is outdated, but seeing how millions of machines and devices worked with it for years as a network, calling it rediculous is akin to calling RS232 ridiculous.
>>to suggest that AppleTalk is a > > "networking standard" in the industry is as laughable as it is

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