Framing Lumber

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On 7/20/2016 3:19 PM, John McCoy wrote:

Actually in the South studs are also commonly made from SYP, Southern Yellow Pine. Not the common P that is some times used in Spruce, Pine, Fir.
Typically SYP is a much harder and heavier wood.
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wrote:

True. Around here (i.e. Fla), those are always seperate and are marked as Southern Yellow Pine. The normal run of the mill 2-bys are just marked SPF (if they're marked as anything at all).
John
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On 7/21/2016 11:17 AM, John McCoy wrote:

Do you see much SYP in Florida? I was reading about a majority of homes built years ago in southern Louisiana that don't have a big issue with termites, apparently they are not interested in SYP. SPF was an entirely different story however. I was wondering if Florida may have witnessed the same.
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It's not much used for home building now, because of the hurricane code and other reasons. Almost everything is block now. With SPF for interior framing and roof trusses and stuff like that.
There was a time when it was the norm. The old growth pine, especially the varietal called Dade County Pine, was too hard for termites to eat (or carpenters to drive nails into, in some cases), and resisted rot, too. Modern development has pretty much eliminated those old houses in south Fla, but they're still to be found upstate.
John
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Sounds just like my first 1929-built two-bedroom frame house [for Leon and Swing - a few blocks inside the North Loop on West 25th just a couple of houses off North Shepherd]; almost always had to pre-drill the existing 1X6 pine trim. I remember the wood as being old growth loblolly pine, dense account high in tar content and most often fractionally thicker than 3/4 inch. And the whole structure was [3-5/8 X 1-5/8] two-bys including the rafters though generously braced. I ripped many 1/8 inch strips when I started closing up a doorway in one location and reframing in another. Not a header in the house either. 1X10 shiplap interior walls still had cloth-backed wallpaper under the 1/4 inch drywall and 117 exterior siding without sheathing or felt. Door and window openings were hand hewn when it was necessary to size into a full width piece of 1X10 or the 117. Floors were pine, too, with no subflooring [jeez, did leak cold air!]. The carpenters that built that place had a trick for dealing with a bowed and twisted two by. When I started opening up walls I found several studs that appeared to have been sliced into lengthwise [with a coping saw of some sort?] in order to twist the stud into proper placement on the sole and top plates.
Dave in Houston
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On 7/23/2016 8:49 AM, Dave in SoTex wrote:

Sounds like my house I owned just North of 20th on Columbia; and the one which I recently did some remodeling on Oxford, just around the corner from that one.
Good thing is that Grogan Lumber on Yale still has much of that old trim (shoe, base, crown, door) still in stock ... saved my butt on many occasions.
All the new trim on this added BR closet matched perfectly with the existing from the 30's, from their still in stock trim:
https://goo.gl/photos/rhpJtfv7s2TGvnnR6
Love it when you can do that ...
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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There, see, already undersized lumber. A trend that goes way back :-)
(I recall helping tear down an old wall up in N Fla, which had actual 2x4 two-bys. Altho I suspect they had been locally sawn, rather than coming from a commercial mill).

Boatbuilders have a word for that, which is escaping me now. Of course, in their case they're trying to get a piece of lumber to twist, not to correct it.
John
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Where's Lew Hodgett when you need him?
Dave in SoTex
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Lew passed away earlier this year.
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"Leon" wrote in message wrote:

Lew passed away earlier this year.
I know, Leon. I was being facetious. ~ :o)
Dave in SoTex
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wrote:

It's quite a nice wood, actually. I've seen century old SYP floors that were still serviceable.
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snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote in

I've used SYP for ice rink boards, they seem to last about as long as PT, maybe a little less but are much cheaper.
A good bunch of the PT around here is SYP.
It makes good tops on the lathe, but I haven't found any wood that's unsuitable for that yet. (I've found unsuitable trees and some are better than others, but pretty much any wood seems to work... Even plywood.)
Puckdropper
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Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in

There's a big difference between old growth yellow pine and what you can get now. It's still a very strong wood, but it doesn't have the rot and insect resistance of the close grained old stuff.
John
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Hunted an East Texas lease for 12 or 13 years or so back in the 70s and 80s on lumber/paper company acreage, the lease un by a local whose entire working career was with Kirby Lumber. It was second growth having been logged in the early 1900s when the trees were moved from their location on rail trams "These trees have been developed for fast growth and to hold paint," Louie once told me. Growth cycle from planting to harvest being 30 years, give or take,
Dave in Houston
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On Thursday, July 21, 2016 at 4:25:54 PM UTC-7, snipped-for-privacy@attt.bizz wrote:

At Monticello, two plus centuries. It's not clear whether the modern trees and their lumber are the same, though. The environs of Monticello, last I saw, were planted with other tree species.
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On Friday, July 22, 2016 at 2:00:14 PM UTC-5, whit3rd wrote:

I think Monticello's construction is of longleaf pine, specifically for the exposed interior applications, and it's certainly not the same as today's fast-growing pine lumbers.
Though most southern pines are lumped into the SYP category, the premium ol d lumber was/is the longleaf pine, specifically the heart wood. Grows muc h slower than other species of pine, hence there are very few LLP trees sti ll around. Very tight grained lumber. Almost all new construction, with LLP, is salvaged lumber, and used for flooring, exposed beams and other exp osed decor type applications. No one, in their right mind, would use this premium old lumber for rough framing and the like.
From what I understand, for lots of long ago construction in the SE, the ol d growth LLP was the lumber of choice for exposed interior applications and old growth cypress was used for exterior siding and trim.... the red cypre ss specifically for doors & window sashes, framing & trim.
Though I've never tried to verify, I'd like to think the 16 salvaged 1X12X2 1' boards, I have, is longleaf pine. Someday, I'll figure out what projec t(s) to make with them.
Sonny
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Cypress is a hell of a lot easier to work, so that makes sense. Especially if you're making sash and the like with a hand plane.
John
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I worked in the Southern Pacific Building on Franklin at Travis in the north end of downtown Houston. The building was completed in 1912 and all the windows for all nine floors were double-hung cypress. In the late 70s or early 80 the company replaced them one and all with bronzed double-glazed aluminum. Tried my damndest to get my hands on a dozen or so of those thinking they'd make a bodacious greenhouse. To no avail; company policy did not allow employees to acquire company salvage.
Dave in SoTex
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On Sunday, July 24, 2016 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-5, Dave in SoTex wrote:

You didn't have a relative (non-employee) to go collect them? Folks look for old glass panes, as that, also, for new cabinets and such.
However, such a waste if they trashed them.
Sonny
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As it should be.
xcFalse salvage practices have made some "employees" rich. I've seen this shady practice evolve into a major scandal at one govt weapons lab. 8|
nb
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