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On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:54:21 GMT, Charles Krug

College ? Don't you guys do this in secondary school? (about age 13/14 ?)

Some do. Most don't. Modern schools no longer place any emphasis on learning - they are just socialization vehicles.

scott

*<plonk> to yet another person who talks big while "hiding" behind*
anonymity.

You really can't do the math, can you?

I should give you access to my family's email address? I think not. You're one of the reasons making relative anonymity necessary. Besides, what does that have to do with what is said here? You're just using that as a sidetrack, an excuse. Do you need it so that you can ask for some hints on how to do the math? All I see here is a handful of people muttering a few buzzwords like "Calculus" because they heard it somewhere, and cluttering the newsgroup with other similar drivel, but not able to do a simple high school math problem.

Put up or shut up.

Apparently you forgot what started the whole thing: someone asked a question about measuring miters, someone else posted an answer that was demonstrably, and laughably, wrong, and then proceeded to insult and abuse those who pointed out his mistakes.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

My associates was in Engineering. When I got around to finishing***COUGHS*** years later, I'd been working as a software engineer basically
my whole career, so I signed up for CS, but the way the courses were
laid out, doubling Math was "easy" to schedule (though a good bit more
demanding than the CS classes).

Linear is a stumbling block for CS types, much as (pick one) Statics and Dynamics or Differential Equations are for "hardware engineers."

I found I had to study more than with some other courses, but it wasn't a brick wall. OTOH, fully a third of my section was either repeats who'd dropped or Math Ed grad students who didn't do well enough as Undergrads.

Um. The ones taking calculus in high school, aren't the same ones who can't find things on a globe, they're the ones who are majoring in Phy-Ed (or whatever it's called now) and__ _beating up_ __the ones in the
calculus class.

Repeating (since you failed to address it last time): Tell me, just how would you express _in_words_, "root(2)*** (width***width)"
then?

Repeating (since you failed to address it last time):

Did your professors bother to teach you about "reduction" to simplest form? Did your professors not teach you how***stupid*** it is to do two multiplies
and a (calculated) square-root when the exact same result can be obtained
via a single multiply of a constant

yup. "Root of the quantity two times the square of the width of the board"

#### Site Timeline

- posted on April 12, 2005, 9:51 pm

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:54:21 GMT, Charles Krug

College ? Don't you guys do this in secondary school? (about age 13/14 ?)

- posted on April 12, 2005, 10:13 pm

Some do. Most don't. Modern schools no longer place any emphasis on learning - they are just socialization vehicles.

scott

- posted on April 13, 2005, 12:21 am

wrote:

I hit Calc as a HS Senior in 1980, then again as a college freshman.

MUCH later when I finished, I did Advanced Calculus (Sometimes called "Introductory Real Analysis" where you do all the proving.

The other "prove it" courses were Discrete Mathematics (all about counting) and "Modern Algebra" (Properties of sets, operations, groups, rings, fields . . . )

Great fun.

I hit Calc as a HS Senior in 1980, then again as a college freshman.

MUCH later when I finished, I did Advanced Calculus (Sometimes called "Introductory Real Analysis" where you do all the proving.

The other "prove it" courses were Discrete Mathematics (all about counting) and "Modern Algebra" (Properties of sets, operations, groups, rings, fields . . . )

Great fun.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 3:30 am

Charles Krug says...

A math major? Mine was chemistry. I did differential and integral calculus, analytic geometry and multivariate calculus with relative ease. Then I got to linear algebra and differential equations and my brain stopped working. It didn't help that we had a fresh PhD whiz kid as the prof who hadn't learned how to dumb it down yet to us poor slobs who were only minoring in math, not making it a career. Got a B in the class, but it was only because everybody was flunking and he had to resort to the curve to end all curves so that everybody didn't get an F. My first semester calc instructor told us on day one there would be no curve, even if it meant failing everybody. At the end, he said we were the best calculus class he ever had and that four people had earned A's (including me) and he hadn't given any A's at all in the previous three semesters. The class was an hour long and he gave three hour tests--one every two weeks and a take home test to go with the in-class test. We took our final exam in the library because it was open until 10:00PM. Our class time was at 6:00PM and he said he would be in the library at 4:30 if anyone wanted to start the test then. I arrived at 4:30 and turned in my exam when the library was closing. Out of 25 story problems, I still left three blank after 5 1/2 hours of work.

A math major? Mine was chemistry. I did differential and integral calculus, analytic geometry and multivariate calculus with relative ease. Then I got to linear algebra and differential equations and my brain stopped working. It didn't help that we had a fresh PhD whiz kid as the prof who hadn't learned how to dumb it down yet to us poor slobs who were only minoring in math, not making it a career. Got a B in the class, but it was only because everybody was flunking and he had to resort to the curve to end all curves so that everybody didn't get an F. My first semester calc instructor told us on day one there would be no curve, even if it meant failing everybody. At the end, he said we were the best calculus class he ever had and that four people had earned A's (including me) and he hadn't given any A's at all in the previous three semesters. The class was an hour long and he gave three hour tests--one every two weeks and a take home test to go with the in-class test. We took our final exam in the library because it was open until 10:00PM. Our class time was at 6:00PM and he said he would be in the library at 4:30 if anyone wanted to start the test then. I arrived at 4:30 and turned in my exam when the library was closing. Out of 25 story problems, I still left three blank after 5 1/2 hours of work.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 1:01 pm

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:30:29 -0500, Hax Planx

That's because he couldn't forsee that your career would be passing around buzz-words lame excuses in a woodworking conference about your own inadequacies.

Get a bloody life. You know nothing about mathematics, or you'd be simply applying it instead of blaming school systems for your own failures. Get a hobby. Try woodworking to relieve the tension.

That's because he couldn't forsee that your career would be passing around buzz-words lame excuses in a woodworking conference about your own inadequacies.

Get a bloody life. You know nothing about mathematics, or you'd be simply applying it instead of blaming school systems for your own failures. Get a hobby. Try woodworking to relieve the tension.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 4:44 pm

Guess who says...

For the love of God, man, keep up with your medications. Remember, Mr. Thorazine is your friend! He brings happy thoughts and makes the bad people talking in your head go away.

For the love of God, man, keep up with your medications. Remember, Mr. Thorazine is your friend! He brings happy thoughts and makes the bad people talking in your head go away.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 6:00 pm

On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:44:15 -0500, Hax Planx

Then go away. This is a WOODworking forum, or did you forget how to read, or to understand what you do read? Try your luck in a math/physics forum, but don't keep your hopes too high that your drivel will be tolerated there either. Who gives a rat's behind if you passed or flunked math? You are the one with fantasies here.

You seem to be a LOT more familiar with that med than I am. I have no idea what it is, except to guess from your behaviour.

I'm done, except to post a problem in geometry:

Design a rectangular table. The top will pivot 90 degrees, and unfold to twice the size if needed.

1. Where do you place the pivot point so that it will sit symmetrically about the center of the original top?

2. What ratio of sides will ensure that the unfolded table has the same [similar] shape as the original folded rectangular top?

Come back when you can see your way through it. It's simple high school stuff, so not too much for your brilliant mind.

Then go away. This is a WOODworking forum, or did you forget how to read, or to understand what you do read? Try your luck in a math/physics forum, but don't keep your hopes too high that your drivel will be tolerated there either. Who gives a rat's behind if you passed or flunked math? You are the one with fantasies here.

You seem to be a LOT more familiar with that med than I am. I have no idea what it is, except to guess from your behaviour.

I'm done, except to post a problem in geometry:

Design a rectangular table. The top will pivot 90 degrees, and unfold to twice the size if needed.

1. Where do you place the pivot point so that it will sit symmetrically about the center of the original top?

2. What ratio of sides will ensure that the unfolded table has the same [similar] shape as the original folded rectangular top?

Come back when you can see your way through it. It's simple high school stuff, so not too much for your brilliant mind.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 6:33 pm

- posted on April 13, 2005, 8:54 pm

You really can't do the math, can you?

I should give you access to my family's email address? I think not. You're one of the reasons making relative anonymity necessary. Besides, what does that have to do with what is said here? You're just using that as a sidetrack, an excuse. Do you need it so that you can ask for some hints on how to do the math? All I see here is a handful of people muttering a few buzzwords like "Calculus" because they heard it somewhere, and cluttering the newsgroup with other similar drivel, but not able to do a simple high school math problem.

Put up or shut up.

- posted on April 14, 2005, 12:03 am

Apparently you forgot what started the whole thing: someone asked a question about measuring miters, someone else posted an answer that was demonstrably, and laughably, wrong, and then proceeded to insult and abuse those who pointed out his mistakes.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

- posted on April 14, 2005, 1:58 am

On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:03:32 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller)
wrote:

...then people showed how clever they were? "A rose by any other name...." .

By the way, the pivot point is found by going half way along the length, down 1/4 the width, then that same distance lengthwise again. The ratio of sides for similar shapes open and closed would have to be sqrt(2):1. Now let's get on with some wood-talk.

...then people showed how clever they were? "A rose by any other name...." .

By the way, the pivot point is found by going half way along the length, down 1/4 the width, then that same distance lengthwise again. The ratio of sides for similar shapes open and closed would have to be sqrt(2):1. Now let's get on with some wood-talk.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 1:06 pm

Hax Planx wrote:
...

The notorious one for that when I was an undergrad was Atomic Physics lecture...each quiz was four problems, each counted 1/4-th, each was right or wrong--down to specific precision for those w/ numeric results. A real pita w/ a slide rule, for sure... :(

Dr. Livesay, the ex-Marine drill sargeant was the ogre for Analytic Geometry (Calc IV) similar to your description...

The notorious one for that when I was an undergrad was Atomic Physics lecture...each quiz was four problems, each counted 1/4-th, each was right or wrong--down to specific precision for those w/ numeric results. A real pita w/ a slide rule, for sure... :(

Dr. Livesay, the ex-Marine drill sargeant was the ogre for Analytic Geometry (Calc IV) similar to your description...

- posted on April 13, 2005, 4:48 pm

Duane Bozarth says...

The funny thing was our department chair was a Harvard man, and his were the easiest advanced science classes I had.

The funny thing was our department chair was a Harvard man, and his were the easiest advanced science classes I had.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 1:46 pm

My associates was in Engineering. When I got around to finishing

Linear is a stumbling block for CS types, much as (pick one) Statics and Dynamics or Differential Equations are for "hardware engineers."

I found I had to study more than with some other courses, but it wasn't a brick wall. OTOH, fully a third of my section was either repeats who'd dropped or Math Ed grad students who didn't do well enough as Undergrads.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 4:58 pm

Charles Krug says...

I could have done much better with the lin alg/Diff eq class if I had applied myself the way I did with my first semester calc class, but I just had so much more going on. I had Physical Chemistry (a lot of abstract Max Planck quantum mechanics), very demanding labs, 300 level general ed classes, seminars to attend and write reports on, undergrad research, part-time job, etc. But I'll admit it was a great lifestyle and I would be still doing it to this day If I could.

I could have done much better with the lin alg/Diff eq class if I had applied myself the way I did with my first semester calc class, but I just had so much more going on. I had Physical Chemistry (a lot of abstract Max Planck quantum mechanics), very demanding labs, 300 level general ed classes, seminars to attend and write reports on, undergrad research, part-time job, etc. But I'll admit it was a great lifestyle and I would be still doing it to this day If I could.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 12:09 pm

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 22:51:22 +0100, Andy Dingley

I was 16 when I got to take calculus- and that was a year early, with a recommendation from the head of the math departement. There was no course higher than calc offered. Shame to say that in the three year gap between that and when I took calculus 2 in college, I forgot pretty much everything I had learned, and it really sort of soured my taste for higher maths.

Horray for the American public education system!

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

I was 16 when I got to take calculus- and that was a year early, with a recommendation from the head of the math departement. There was no course higher than calc offered. Shame to say that in the three year gap between that and when I took calculus 2 in college, I forgot pretty much everything I had learned, and it really sort of soured my taste for higher maths.

Horray for the American public education system!

Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

- posted on April 13, 2005, 1:50 pm

wrote:

I had that problem. I (probably foolishly) tested out of Calc I and II and dove directly into Calc III where I foundered.

Though I recovered. :)

I had that problem. I (probably foolishly) tested out of Calc I and II and dove directly into Calc III where I foundered.

Though I recovered. :)

- posted on April 13, 2005, 5:04 pm

Prometheus says...

I don't think Calc needs to be a high school class. If high schoolers leave with a good knowledge of algebra, geometry and trigonometry they will be very, very well prepared for college. When some graduates can't find the USA on a globe, they have far bigger fish to fry.

I don't think Calc needs to be a high school class. If high schoolers leave with a good knowledge of algebra, geometry and trigonometry they will be very, very well prepared for college. When some graduates can't find the USA on a globe, they have far bigger fish to fry.

- posted on April 13, 2005, 6:01 pm

Um. The ones taking calculus in high school, aren't the same ones who can't find things on a globe, they're the ones who are majoring in Phy-Ed (or whatever it's called now) and

- posted on April 12, 2005, 8:50 pm

Repeating (since you failed to address it last time): Tell me, just how would you express _in_words_, "root(2)

Repeating (since you failed to address it last time):

Did your professors bother to teach you about "reduction" to simplest form? Did your professors not teach you how

yup. "Root of the quantity two times the square of the width of the board"

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