Fondled a Festool Domino

[Father Haskell]

Mortise first, then clip the end of the rung at an angle.

[russellseaton1]

$800 for the Leigh FMT. Plus you have to have a router to use with it. Plus an assortment of bits is $100-200? Domino is $660 plus $30, $29, $28 for the extra 10mm, 8mm, 6mm cutters. Plus $65 for the loose tenons in various quantities of the sizes. Its more money to start from scratch with the FMT.

Domino can put the mortises in the right place too. Just takes seconds. Pick up the tool, put it where you want it and a couple seconds later you are putting loose tenons and glue into the joints.

I'll make the not very bold prediction that the Leigh FMT will disappear from the catalogs and marketplace in a year or two because its small extra versatility over the Domino comes at such a high setup cost in time that people will not buy the FMT.

The Domino cuts acceptable, usable joints in seconds. Not minutes. That time advantage is a real measurable advantage. If you can end up with an acceptable joint in seconds, why take minutes or hours to achieve the same or similar result? Lots of woodworkers get pleasure from actually completeing a project and using it. The Domino helps with this.

[Swingman]

... and Leigh may not be the only ones looking over their shoulder at this thing.

[Leon]

Good thought however the mating piece probably will not fit as desired.

[Leon]

Still the FMT does make a large variety of mortises and tennons and the Domino makes 4 sized mortises. The Domino will not replace the FMT, I think each has its place.

[Leon]

I agree, get the Domino and send it to me. ;~)

[B A R R Y]

I'm still waiting for a _reasonably_ priced trim router plunge base.

[Charley]

No it doesn't. When I want mortices in the face of a board I use the D4R dovetail jig with the F1 attachment.

[bf]

I saw a demo. I'm not insulting them, but I actually have no desire to get one. Seems like it would have a lot of the same problems a biscuit cutter would. I tried making face frames with the little biscuits, and it was a lot more frustrating than using a Kreg. And I don't see how it would be faster than a Kreg, because you're going to have to be real careful to line up your pencil marks and hold the Domino just right (or build a jig).. just like a biscuit cutter.

I can see the advantage in an application where you're going to make a loose tennon anyway. But in the types of projects I do, I see the Domino being just as good as a biscuit cutter sometimes and inferior to pocket screws.

Tell me what I'm saying that is wrong.. I just see this thing being a PITA for face frames and other Kreg applications.

[russellseaton1]

No. The Domino can make ANY size mortise for width and length. Its only limitation is depth. 28mm deep is the maximum. To cut a dado clear across a board just slide the Domino along. To cut a mortise from the top to the bottom of a board, just move the fence up or down. I guess there could be a limitation for height of the mortise since the fence only has about 2-3" of travel. You could easily get around this fence limitation by just clamping a board across the piece and resting the bottom of the Domino on the clamped board. 28mm mortise depth is the only limitation.

And the 28mm depth is probably not correct. Once you cut the mortise

28mm deep, you can easily take a router with a bearing guided top bearing and plunge cut the mortise much deeper. I am sure CMT and Jesada and all the other router bit makers sell 10mm diameter top bearing guided pattern bits. This does take a minute to put the bit in the router and set the plunge depth to say 2.5" and then a second or two to put the bit into the hole and plunge cut it. But if you are only making extra deep mortises once in awhile, its still very quick. And the Domino already cut the original mortise for the pattern in seconds.

FMT does make integral tenons in addition to the mortises. But if you are willing to use loose tenons, then having integral tenons is not an advantage. And once the loose tenon is glued into the mortise, its an integral tenon. Using loose tenons does make piece sizing much easier. No need to figure tenon length and add that to the pieces you cut. Just cut the finished length of the piece and you are done. Join with loose tenons. In another post I think someone mentioned using the Multi Router almost exclusively to cut mortises, not to cut integral tenons. I would guess most people who use the Multi Router or FMT frequently fall into the pattern of using loose tenons for almost everything due to its simpler, easier method.

The FMT can do more. So can the Multi Router. So can the European slot mortisers mounted onto jointer/planer combination machines, or the stand alone versions of slot mortisers. All cost more. Multi Router and stand alone slot mortiser many, many times more. All require far more setup time. All can cut much deeper mortises. The FMT and Multi Router can also cut integral tenons.

If 95+% of your mortise and tenon joinery can be handled by 2" loose tenons (1" glued into each piece) and these mortises can be cut in seconds with no more setup time required than drawing a pencil mark and moving the Domiino fence up or down, I don't see much of a future for the FMT, Multi Router, or slot morttisers.

If you own neither the Domino or FMT or Multi Router or slot mortiser for your jointer/planer machine and want a machine to cut your mortises, which will you pick? $1000 roughly for the FMT or Domino or slot mortiser for jointer/planer, or $2500 for Multi Router. The others can all do more with considerably more setup time required. 95+ % can be done with the Domino in seconds. Do you buy a tool that does everything with considerable setup time, or buy a tool that does 95+% with no setup time? And if you have the Domino for 95+%, would you spend an extra $1000 for the FMT to get that other 5%?

A few months ago I decided I would get joint cutting machines. Dovetail was easy. Either the Leigh D24R or the new Omnijig coming out in a few months. Have not bought one yet, but its between these two for dovetails. Also decided I needed a mortise and tenon machine. I have a tablesaw and dado blade so cutting tenons on the ends of pieces is easily done. Mortises are a bit harder. And loose tenons eliminates the need to even use the table saw and dado blade to cut integral tenons. machines considered were the FMT and the slot mortiser for jointer/planer combination machines. I was/am considering one of these from Hammer, Felder, MiniMax. Cost of FMT is $800+router+bits. Cost of slot mortiser for Hammer j/p combo is $800+bits. Of these two my choice was the slot mortiser. Then the Domino came along. My choice now is the Domino. It has advantages because you can take it to the work and work on round and curved pieces without jigs and setup. Its also so much faster. And if I do not get the j/p combo but go with separate jointer and planer, it still works while the slot mortiser for the j/p combo needs the j/p combo first. I have not spent the money yet on the dovetail or mortise fixture so I'm still thinking, wishing, dreaming, talking, etc.

[B A R R Y]

I think it's aimed more at furniture applications.

[CW]

Ever make anything besides face frames? Ever do anything where the three inch long pocket screw gash wouldn't look good?

[Leon]

You use the box joint jig to make matrices in the face of a board? How do you do that? Are you sure that is not a M1 jig?

[Leon]

The Domino cannot make a 1/8" thick mortice can it? That is what I was refering to.

[Leon]

And I don't see how it would

Well to be fair, you have to use the same technique to align the pieces when attaching the pocket screws. You still need to align the pieces. The Pocket screws would have a great advantage over the Domino when it comes to clamping and glue up. When the screws go in the piece is finished.

Personally I se it as equal to anything else and I do make a lot of face frames with pocket hole screws. The advantage with the screws is the saved time during and glue up and not having to leave the pieces in clamps. The down side to screws is that they do not provide as strong of a joint as loose tennons and they leave an exposed hole that sometimes has to be delt with.

[splinter]

I have been using the beadlock system for mortice/loose tenons in my opinion it works great. and the money i saved can buy a nice 14" bandsaw. am i missing something or do you guys just have money coming out of the wazoo?

[russellseaton1]

5mm is the narrowest. Roughly 5mm by 15mm or so. 5/25.4 = .19685" = strong 3/16" So no it can't make 1/8". Not sure what you would use such a tiny mortise for.

[russellseaton1]

How quickly can you make mirtises in the two pieces to be joined with the Beadlock system? Why did you need to buy a Beadlock system to drill mortises? Why not just use a drill press and fence? Can you make a mortise with the Beadlock in the center of a board? How about mortises besides just 3/8" and 1/2"? How much setup time is required?

It looks like the Beadlock would work pretty well. But its not nearly as quick as the Domino. The quickness, lack of setup time is what sets the Domino apart from about anything else. All of these tools, jigs, fixtures are supposed to aid in the cutting of joints by making it quicker or more precise than by hand or another way. Beadlock takes the place of a bit and brace used to drill out the mortise and a chisel to clean it up so its rectangular. Domino does the same thing, it substitutes for other methods. Leigh dovetal jig D24R takes the place of handcutting dovetails with a saw and chisel.

[russellseaton1]

Comparing the little biscuits the Porter Cable biscuit joiner cuts to the Domino tenons is not correct.

And I don't see how it would

Its very, very easy to line up the pencil marks and have the mortises exactly where you want them. And the Domino has built in pins to use for alignment purposes so no pencil marks necessary. The fence is adjustable on the Domino so you can use it to position the cutter. You can also cut slightly oversize mortises to make alignment very easy. Once a loose tenon is glued in, the fact its hole is slightly too big isn't going to compromise the strength enough to make a difference.

and hold the Domino just right (or build

Many pieces of furniture such as tables, desks, chairs, chests use mortise and tenon to assemble the parts.

But in the types of projects I do, I see the

Pocket screws and biscuits on a chair? Pocket screws or biscuits to attach the drawer dust covers into a bedroom chest of drawers?

Face frames would be where it excels. I do not have a Kreg because I just don't like the idea of exposed screws on my furniture pieces. Even if they are on the back side. Carpentry and construction, I use screws all the time. Nice furniture? Not for me. I have a biscuit joiner but just have never liked it for nice furniture joints. Making panels, yes for alignment and gluing.

[Leon]

As my comment indicated earlier, the FMT is capable of making tiny/miniature mortise and tennons for those that like to build doll house furniture. It is very versatile in this respect.