Fluorescent Lighting for Shop/Garage

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Probably all of the regular readers hear are as familiar as they care to be with my "shop lighting" plans. So I won't belabor them again. Earlier, I was advised here to seek out "5000K" T8 bulbs. Reviewing my notes, I saw I wrote that down a few times! : )
Today I headed out into to cruel, understocked world, to pick up a few items to begin my lighting experiments. Prices were noticeably better at the BORGs than online. Along with a few fixtures I came home with the bulbs:
Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.
When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.
I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:
In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too!
BTW, In Sylvania's cataglog, it says that 850 Lumens ~ 60 Watt incandescent bulb. I'm not sure if multiples of this relation are meaningful (probably not). BTW2, I did notice that the Lumens Output listed is a "nominal measurement" (ha) --one may be doing well to actually get 80% of it.
I finally got a big binder last night to hold my plans and designs in. That's got to be better than the approach I was using. ;)
For those of you who remember my broken dishwasher: It washed and washed at 100 decibels or more for the past few months (I was adhering to the suggested "if it's not *really* broke, then don't fix it" principle). About a week ago it tripped the GFCI switch it was on leaving my poor wife to bail the dishwasher out by hand. I noticed a 10% sale at Lowes last week, and got an additional 5% for getting a Lowes CC, so I bit the bullet. I pondered how many light fixtures and wire you can get for the price of a new dishwasher, but as my wife seem to take pride in pointing out..they don't wash dishes! ; )
Sorry if I've distracted you, my main concern is about those 2 categories of 5000K, T8 bulbs.
Thank you, Bill
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Go for lumens. The color temperature may be "pleasing" (whiter, etc) but the lumens is a measure of the light output. The more the better in a shop environment.
Max
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"Bill" wrote in message
Probably all of the regular readers hear are as familiar as they care to be with my "shop lighting" plans. So I won't belabor them again. Earlier, I was advised here to seek out "5000K" T8 bulbs. Reviewing my notes, I saw I wrote that down a few times! : )
Today I headed out into to cruel, understocked world, to pick up a few items to begin my lighting experiments. Prices were noticeably better at the BORGs than online. Along with a few fixtures I came home with the bulbs:
Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.
When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.
I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:
In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too!
BTW, In Sylvania's cataglog, it says that 850 Lumens ~ 60 Watt incandescent bulb. I'm not sure if multiples of this relation are meaningful (probably not). BTW2, I did notice that the Lumens Output listed is a "nominal measurement" (ha) --one may be doing well to actually get 80% of it.
I finally got a big binder last night to hold my plans and designs in. That's got to be better than the approach I was using. ;)
For those of you who remember my broken dishwasher: It washed and washed at 100 decibels or more for the past few months (I was adhering to the suggested "if it's not *really* broke, then don't fix it" principle). About a week ago it tripped the GFCI switch it was on leaving my poor wife to bail the dishwasher out by hand. I noticed a 10% sale at Lowes last week, and got an additional 5% for getting a Lowes CC, so I bit the bullet. I pondered how many light fixtures and wire you can get for the price of a new dishwasher, but as my wife seem to take pride in pointing out..they don't wash dishes! ; )
Sorry if I've distracted you, my main concern is about those 2 categories of 5000K, T8 bulbs.
Thank you, Bill --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FYI, I am in a new house with a 3 car garage. For a short period I had 2, 60 watt incandescent bulbs for lighting with light beige walls. I put in a door opener that uses 2, 100 watt CF bulbs and I replaced the 2 60 watt bulbs with the same. So thee I had 400 watts of lighting. What a difference.
Now I have added 4, 8' fixtures that hold 4, T8 bulbs each, 16 total 4' bulbs. These are Phillips Daylight Deluxe 2700 lumen bulbs. Almost brighter than day light in there now. If fact if the garage door is open during the day it covers 4 of the bulbs and it is just not quite as bright.
You want at least the 2700 lumen bulbs! BTY I painted the walls white with a satin sheen and those 4, 100 watt CFR bulbs still light up but look dim by comparison.
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Leon wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, and everyone else who offered suggestions. Your comments on your experience that you shared above are definitely helpful.
My "maximal plan" would have 22 T8 bulbs (11 4' fixtures), in my 20' by 25' space, on 3 switches. One switch would have just two fixtures over my workbench/table (I think of that as "mood lighting", sort of comparable to light over a pool table) and the other 9 would be divided among the other 2 switches. I will do some actual experiments in the immediate future to help me decide whether this many bulbs produces more light than I want or not.
The way I am planning to do the wiring (EMT/THHN) offers considerable latitude in reassigning lights to switches. For my 3 hot wires A, B, C I'll have an A-B row, and two B-C rows. Thus I'll be running just 4 wires, 2 hots, White and Ground along each of my three rows of fixtures. My uncle explained to me why he didn't think I should use the metal conduit as a ground (even though it may be allowable).
Bill
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"Bill" wrote in message

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you, and everyone else who offered suggestions. Your comments on your experience that you shared above are definitely helpful.
My "maximal plan" would have 22 T8 bulbs (11 4' fixtures), in my 20' by 25' space, on 3 switches. One switch would have just two fixtures over my workbench/table (I think of that as "mood lighting", sort of comparable to light over a pool table) and the other 9 would be divided among the other 2 switches. I will do some actual experiments in the immediate future to help me decide whether this many bulbs produces more light than I want or not.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 watts per bulb would = 704 watts. I have 712 counting the 2, CF bulbs in the regular sockets. The switch for your work bench is probably a good idea but it would be nothing for a single switch to handle the rest of the lighting, unless you simply want to not light up the whole area.
The way I am planning to do the wiring (EMT/THHN) offers considerable latitude in reassigning lights to switches. For my 3 hot wires A, B, C I'll have an A-B row, and two B-C rows. Thus I'll be running just 4 wires, 2 hots, White and Ground along each of my three rows of fixtures. My uncle explained to me why he didn't think I should use the metal conduit as a ground (even though it may be allowable).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I simply tied into the existing light boxes in the attic, they had extra terminals for that purpose.
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Leon wrote:

That's a pretty good idea. It's one that was evidently well-exploited before I arrived on the scene and it helps gives me a historical perspective. I will keep the lesson in mind for my future use!
Thanks, Bill
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Let's see, 22 x 2,700 lumens = 59,400 lumens. That's the equivalent of almost SEVENTY ONE 60W bulbs. Now do you see why that's absolute overkill to the Nth degree? I still think that you'd have plenty of light with 4 fixtures in addition to the two which are already up there, and adding spot illumination where necessary.
Power used by 11 fixtures (bulbs + ballasts) would be about a horsepower and a half, 1100W all the time you're in the shop. Even fluor can get expensive to run if there's too much of it.

You'll need an arc welding helmet to walk in that Lew-Approved(tmLJ) room. Time for cataract surgery so you can see again, guys.

Not only is it illegal in most places, it's a safety hazard. If you lost your neutral (white wire), you'd have current (plus the resultant resistances) in iffy connections, which could be a fire hazard.
-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message wrote:

Let's see, 22 x 2,700 lumens = 59,400 lumens. That's the equivalent of almost SEVENTY ONE 60W bulbs. Now do you see why that's absolute overkill to the Nth degree? I still think that you'd have plenty of light with 4 fixtures in addition to the two which are already up there, and adding spot illumination where necessary.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That is only 6 more tubes than in my shop of similar size and that certainly is not nay where near over kill, speaking from experience.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Power used by 11 fixtures (bulbs + ballasts) would be about a horsepower and a half, 1100W all the time you're in the shop. Even fluor can get expensive to run if there's too much of it.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BS! 22 bulbs only uses 704 watts. At 10 cents per kilowatt hour that is about 7 cents per hour or 56 cents per 8 hour day.
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wrote:

What color are your walls, ceiling, and floor painted? If they're not all white, they're sucking up lots of lumens.

What are your ballast figures? You're quoting only bulb wattage.
-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message wrote:

?What color are your walls, ceiling, and floor painted? ?If they're not all white, they're sucking up lots of lumens.
White for the walls, the concrete floor is light grey and the ceiling is light beige.

Clueless, Solid State.
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-------
I have 6 - 2 bulb 4' fixtures in my 24 x 32 shop and I think its a bit much....My fixtures are 8' high up.
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wrote:

20' x 25' is roughly 6 meters by 8 meters. 47 square meters. Divide 59,400 lumens by 47 square meters and you get 1254 lux. Which fits in very well with the following chart.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/light-level-rooms-d_708.html
Normal Drawing Work, Detailed Mechanical Workshops, Operation Theatres 1,000 lux Detailed Drawing Work, Very Detailed Mechanical Works 1500 - 2000 lux
I'd say woodworking fits into the detailed mechanical work format. 1254 lux is bright but none too bright. You would still need task lighting for dovetail work.
on 3 switches. One switch would have just two fixtures over

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Thanks for calculating and posting the link above. It gives a very helpful perspective!
Bill
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On Wed, 11 May 2011 09:44:07 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com"

Like the 500W halogen spotlight over dental chairs and ER tables? Right. We need that kind of light to cut wood. <g>

I wouldn't. And I would truly want to wear sunglasses in that shop.
We all have different requirements, don't we?
-- Woe be to him that reads but one book. -- George Herbert
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What I did over my wood lathe and metal lathe - create a wood box and put a bright headlight into it. Then Slave a 12V a.c. transformer to them and turn on the light. Nice spot on the work area.
Lasts a long time - designed for it. Bright. Replaceable. Easy.
Martin
On 5/11/2011 8:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

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"Bill" wrote in Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.
When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.
I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:
In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I seriously doubt that the difference in Lumens is anywhere near the difference as the specs would make you believe.
The wattage is what tells the tale. Both are the same wattage. I doubt you could tell the difference looking at them side by side.
You know how Sears power tools and such say they are 5 HP and use 110V and draw 13 amps, while other tools are 2 HP at the same voltage and amps? It is all in how you measure it.
You want to get some really big time light? Go with an 8 foot high output fixture. Wow!
-- Jim in NC
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You might be surprised. Brightness in fluorescent lamps comes from phosphor chemistry as well as wattage. The particular lamps that he has seem to have compromised efficiency to gain a 90 CRI. The same company makes 5000K F32T8 lamps with a 2700 lumen output and an 85 CRI.

However the same company measuring the same way has bulbs that have specifications almost identical to the Phillips he's looking at. It's not "Sears vs Ingersoll-Rand" or whatever, it's more like an induction motor vs a universal motor.

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"Morgans" wrote in message
"Bill" wrote in Sylvania ("Spectre Maximal"), T8, 32w, 5000K, 1800 Lumens, CRI-90.
When I got home I noticed that Phillips has a bulb: T8, 32w, 5000K, 2850 Lumens, CRI-85. I believe Home Depot had those in boxes of 25 (only), which is why I passed them up while I was there.
I came home with a few of the first sort from Menards. It's the difference in "Lumens output" which has me concerned:
In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I seriously doubt that the difference in Lumens is anywhere near the difference as the specs would make you believe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would not, having been down the road and seen the difference. Lumens, not watts is what you are looking for. I have 40 watt florescent bulbs that look dim compared to the 32 32 watt 2700 limen bulbs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The wattage is what tells the tale. Both are the same wattage. I doubt you could tell the difference looking at them side by side.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Efficiency is what is going to matter here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know how Sears power tools and such say they are 5 HP and use 110V and draw 13 amps, while other tools are 2 HP at the same voltage and amps? It is all in how you measure it.
Not in this case.
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Learn the difference between "Lumens" and "Lux" and your understanding of these matters will likely be better.
-------------- "Leon" wrote in message
In Sylvania's catalog, their bulbs above (1800 Lumens output) were suggested for "display, signage and backlighting". This is leading me to believe that they may be inappropriate. ***Agree???*** Please advise me whether I should return what I have and get a box of the Phillips bulbs. Any other comments which will further my education about this are of course welcome too! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
I seriously doubt that the difference in Lumens is anywhere near the difference as the specs would make you believe.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would not, having been down the road and seen the difference. Lumens, not watts is what you are looking for. I have 40 watt florescent bulbs that look dim compared to the 32 32 watt 2700 limen bulbs.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The wattage is what tells the tale. Both are the same wattage. I doubt you could tell the difference looking at them side by side.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Efficiency is what is going to matter here. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know how Sears power tools and such say they are 5 HP and use 110V and draw 13 amps, while other tools are 2 HP at the same voltage and amps? It is all in how you measure it.
Not in this case.
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"Josepi" wrote in message </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Learn the difference between "Lumens" and "Lux" and your understanding of </DIV> <DIV>these matters will likely be better.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps you should do the research yourself, I have and am happy with the results</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>We certainly do not know how much light is being reflected off the walls and objects in the room so the Lux measurement is a moot point.&nbsp; Since we are comparing what we do know, lumens and watts, that is the only measurement that one can use in determining how much light to expect from a particular lamp. </DIV></DIV></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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