I have not been impressed with a number of things coming out of HD or
Lowes, at least in my area, these past couple years.
I hear you. One of my early flooring jobs was to lay an oak parquet
floor over concrete in the lower level of a house. It was later
subjected to tons of moisture, which we didn't know at the time. That
floor looked like a crazy rollercoaster for a few years until we got
the moisture issues addressed, rpleaced some tiles and provided more
air circulation. It was glued to concrete and, aside from being a pain
to pull up, it was a pain to lay as the glue setup fast. My fingers
and hands hurt for days afterward. It looked good when dry!
I was assuming 4x4 like in the link you posted. If you're doing
planks... even more reason to go with engineered. The link also showed
cabinet grade plywood which is going to be pretty stiff. A 3-8" wide
board can rise and fall with dips in the floor and keep tight seems. A
4x4' stiff panel cannot.
I'm not talking about the shitty laminate that is a picture of wood
stuck to 3/8" of cardboard. I'm talking about engineered which is
essentially the same plywood you're thinking of using, but with
manageable widths that are T&G milled, with a very thick top ply and an
extremely durable finish applied at the factory.
Lumber liquidators has some very decent stuff for under $2.50sq.ft.
That would $80 per sheet of plywood. If can find good enough cabinet
grade plywood for that and put on a perfect and durable a finish like
they can at a factory for under that price, then more power to you.
With the engineered stuff, one person (you) could have your home done in
a few days.
Maybe less if you really kicked ass on it.
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
Mike is talking about pre-finished wood, not laminate. I have some
engineered wood in a heavily traveled family room (most used entrance)
and it shows no wear in 10 years.
Some laminate is good, others are crap. You can't expect much from the
stuff on sale for 99 cents a foot.
Most laminate that costs less than quality hardwood is verging on
junk. Good pre-finished hardwood has a UV cured urethane finish
heavily charged with aluminum oxide. The stuff wears like diamond.
It is generally applied with a pad in VERY thin layers,UV cured
between applications in a dust free finishing line.
Most laminate is made in a hell-hole in China where the wind blows all
kinds of crap through, and it's made of who-knows-what, pressed into a
quasi-board and finished with a photo-representation of wood
impregnated with melamine resin.
I would agree with this. With "normal" tiles you have a grout
line which hides small irregularities, with these tiles you don't.
Don't really agree with this, if you're talking glue-down. It
depends on the quality of the glue and the thickness of the
planks, but they have a tendency to come unstuck on the dips.
Nailing or stapling to an underlayment might be OK with dips
(altho I doubt it would be much different).
Incidently, to dadiOH's point, the top layer on engineered
flooring can be quite thick, altho you pay for that.
Yeah, whatever they use is far harder than the poly you get
in gallon cans at the borg. Counter point to that is, if the
floor does get dinged or scratched, it's not simple to sand
and revarnish like you can with a plain plank floor.
As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood CAN
look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do it for
1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on the
order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.
2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I
could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them,
glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At least
one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to do it well
and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat sub-floor. Of course,
you would need that for most anything.
I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't
break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00 sq.ft. -
you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to install, just lay
one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some would need
crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be ripped. No finishing
needed and it would be far more durable than hardwood ply; it would also
be much less costly and easier to do.
If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put about
1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed - including
7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had not done the tear
out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years but it should look decent
after ten with reasonable care.
We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80 per
sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not recall.
Point taken but dings are better than tears, etc on the vinyl and
carpet. I am certain you have seen how much crap gets under carpet and
I don't care what vaccum anyone uses, it don't come up period.
Some people seem to like the screw look. I don't, but I did see a ones
that do not and I suspect they are glued. My subfloor is flat, that's
not an issue. The entire floor may pitch a tiny bit, but no buckling
or warping, etc.
Again, not around here except for Home Despot and Lowes and I don't
want that chit. I've looked and looked around here and cheapest I
could find was $2.49sq/ft but that had to be special ordered, which
was an extra fee and shipping and no returns.
Hate carpet. No vaccum in the world ever gets out the dirt. And
truthfully stains never come out either.
Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only
things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind
you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!
This is the electronic age...there are a ton of online sellers and they
sell samples too.
There are also chains - such as http://www.floorsanddecor.com that have
stores near to just about anyone and have a broad selection in a wide
price range. They aren't the cheapest but shipping isn't extra (assuming
In my case, I bought online from a Tampa retailer. He then orders from
the distributor who shipped to me. Retailer makes a bit but much less
than if I had walked into his store.
Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I don't much care for laminate,
generally dislike things that try to look like something they are not, but
I don't think it is ugly.
I share your prejudice against carpet. That's why my house has 3500+
sq.ft of Saltillo tile :)
I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking
into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't
hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would
put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the
weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock
and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the
world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.
When you say "it", you mean the current floor right?
Lightweight concrete can be up to 80% lighter than conventional. But
you have to talk to competent people. It's amazing what they can do
to the concrete surface. Stamping, coloring and other tricks.
But that means more $$. Ask someone that knows their stuff with
You know, the funny part was they really never gave me a clear answer
on floor and or cabinets. The words floor and cabinets seemed to be
interchangeable during that discussion.
I agree. My mother wanted to put is a small patio with pavers but the
locals were charging $2200+ for a 10x10 patio, and additional to
remove and rebuild her single doorstep. I told her screw that and go
with stamped concrete. Once I explained it to her, we got a local guy,
she picked a slate pattern and now loves her $1200 patio.
I tried to tell my friend that but he stopped listening to me years
ago. To give you an idea of his logic ...
1. Changed propane stove to electric. Got an oversized connection wire
so stove heats up faster because more electrons move through the
larger wire. Now his wife can't pre-heat because it ruins the food.
2. Wanted a larger fridge. Told him he'd have to remove a cabinet or
move fridge to a different location. Not enough space between
cabinets, stove and wall and it needs circulation. He shoved it in and
the new fridge has a crease down both sides from cabinet and wall.
Absolustely no space except what might be behind it and about an inch
above it. He can't move the fridge w/o more damage.
3. Only kitchen window is rotting out from the bottom up. Why? Well ir
may be due to it being over sink but it's probably more likely that
it's because they splash everywhere, water flowers directly on the
window from the sprayer and empty/refill their 125 turtle tank from
4. I refer to my friend as Tim Taylor. Why? Well one day he wanted to
fix a wall switch/outlet but couldn't get it out, so he took his
sawsall and cut through the wall. Yes, before looking. Yes, he cut
through a power line. Yes, his wife, who was drying her hair, freaked
out. Yes, this man needs a supervision.
His cabinets are on the cheap side but not that cheap. He got lied to
but will never admit it.
He bought vinyl flooring from tiny dealer who never removed old
flooring nails or fixed other flooring problems before laying new
vinyl. Now his bedroom and bathroom floors are full of little bumps,
sags and dips from the nails, etc. He called to complain two weeks
later and (ready for it?), the business was gone. Empty. Vamoosed.
He has no desire to listen to anyone. His wife hates it and the
damaged caused to their home by not getting good advice.
They would never get them off craiglist. I was told, and I quote, they
don't want someone else's problems.
Rather than to listen to anyone who has built, or had professionals
build a deck, he went with a inexperienced contracter and demanded he
use the lumber and matierals he chose and his design. He built a
second story deck to support a large hot tub. Now he is afraid to put
anything on it as most of the main support beams have all twisted 90
degress or more and are pulling the bolts out all over. The contractor
even warned him.
Lucky? My father taught me better. I don't watch this guy do things
because it is dangerous. No lie. Cutting power lines, ruining
chainsaws and damaging your house when the tree falls on it, flooding
your kitchen and basement, and more, all because you won't listen.
I stopped offering advice years ago. He's a grown man.
I have absolutely no reason to lie. Soon as the snow clears off his
deck I will be happy to go over and get you a photo.
We just got another 4-6 inches of snow and the temp plumeted to -15.
In this weather I'm not going out unless it is needful.
Only once has he invited us over to BBQ on his deck the year he built
it which is three years ago. He had the two built at same time.
He went hot tub shopping that summer (deck built in April), then
changed his mind. I asked him if he gave up on tub and he showed me
the twisted beams and gaps between bolts and house. He said he wasn't
comfortable with adding the weight until that was resolved. As far as
I know, it was not altered in any way, yet.
You can see his custom garage he had built here:
Low deck at front door of the house goes around to the garage side
door. Rear of the house is one story lower than the front. Sliding
glass doors in kitchen and back door from the utility room were
boarded up with pallets for 10 years until rear deck built. Garage
easily holds eight cars w/o lifts, which he plans to install. Camper
on side of garage is 28 feet minus the fork (per him). House is 2k sq
ft per level, full basement. That should give you an idea of scale.
I really don't want to get off topic but it seems almost impossible
when discussions start here. At any rate, I am still researching
flooring options. I don't make decisions quickly or lightly unless
they need be. I recently saw a floor done with epoxy (?) and beer
caps. Not my cup of tea but it looked pretty good. I have no idea how
that will hold up in a bathroom but I bet it won't be easy to remove.
On Thursday, February 19, 2015 at 2:33:30 PM UTC-5, Casper wrote:
I'm sure that there are a number of us who would be interested in seeing a
picture of "most of the main support beams ... twisted 90 degress (sic) or
We've all seen twisted wood, but I'll wager that not many of us have seen w
ood that has been used to build a deck that has twisted 90 degrees or more.
A 90 degree twist in single support beam on a given deck would interesting
to see. I'm having a hard time picturing what a 90 degree twist in "most o
f the main support beams" of a deck would look like. I'm having a harder ti
me picturing how the deck is still standing, especially under a snow load.
I'm *really* waiting for spring now!
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