Flooring

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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote in wrote: >>Well, I wouldn't dispute that either. I just wouldn't use Bruce

Two things - firstly, the OP was looking for an inexpensive solution. While Bruce does make product across the whole range of prices, their inexpensive product is poor quality.
Secondly, it's my belief that at every price point, there are products from other manufacturers which are better quality than Bruce.
John
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On Mon, 16 Feb 2015 21:55:30 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
remember "If you want first quality oats, you need to be willing to pay first quality price - If you are willing to settle for oats that have already gone through the horse, they DO come a little cheaper"

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On Monday, February 16, 2015 at 7:11:15 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote:

So, as an example, Festool's "low-end" drill is not good quality?
https://www.festoolproducts.com/Festool-564261-CXS-10-8-Volt-Li-Ion-Cordles s-Drill-p/564261.htm
You said "ANY company who's low end product" which means (to me) the low en d product of that company's product line.
That drill is *their* low end product and I'll bet it's quality is pretty g ood.
I'm sure the same can be said about other companies: Even their low-end off erings can be a quality item as long as they refuse to sell junk just to hi t a price point.
I have a "low-end" snow blower made by Ariens. Their "low-end" is their Sno -Tek line. They managed to hit a particular price point with a quality prod uct. I'd put my Sno-Tek up against any MTD, Craftsman, Yard Machine unit in the same price range with no hesitation.
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 08:40:37 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

We were talking flooring - we were talking lumber.
I wasn't talking about equipment, where you have Rolls Royces and Yugos. Rolls' low end is still a Rolls, Yugo's high end is still a Yugo.
That said, even yuppy brand companies often try to be all things to all people, and try to get into the "mass market" in places like wall-mart where they HAVE to provide a lower end product to meet the price point.
Sadly, some companies do not provide an obvious differentation between the good stuff, the decent stuff and the junk - just burying a one digit difference in their serial numbers, and maintaining the same product number or model number.
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On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 5:33:13 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca wrote :

te:

less-Drill-p/564261.htm

end product of that company's product line.

y good.

offerings can be a quality item as long as they refuse to sell junk just to hit a price point.

Sno-Tek line. They managed to hit a particular price point with a quality p roduct. I'd put my Sno-Tek up against any MTD, Craftsman, Yard Machine unit in the same price range with no hesitation.

Ahh...so what I think you meant to say was:
"Show me ANY *flooring or lumber* company who's low end product is good qua lity. It doesn't exist!@! "
You know, even if that is what you meant to say, I'll still choose to disag ree.
The other day I was watching the "The This Old House Hour". In between segm ents, PBS often does a piece on small companies that do custom work. This w eekend they did a segment on a company that does custom flooring. According to the piece, they can go as far as having the client choose the actual tr ee that will become their flooring. It will then be milled to their specifi cations and installed.
My guess is that, similar to companies like Ariens, the "low end product" o ffered by that flooring company will still be a quality product. In other w ords, they are not trying to be "all things to all people" and I doubt they even offer a non-quality item, even at their lowest end.
I'm only pushing back based on your use of the words "ANY company" with ANY in upper case. IMO, the use of the words "ANY company" doesn't fit for com panies in general or even when limited to flooring companies. There are sti ll companies out there, across all segments of the economy, that won't comp romise their quality for the sake of more business. That's my only point, a nd I think you'll agree with it.
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On Wed, 18 Feb 2015 08:57:32 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03

ANd you think that will be "low cost"??? Call them for a quote.

They are out there - but you won't find them at Home Despot ot Lowes. I reccon you won't find them if you are looking for a low cost solution, period - because they are not in that market. Anything more than about $3.00 a square foot is not "low end" in the flooring market today. (that might be the low end of the price scale for some companies, but it isn't "low end" Semantics perhaps - and possibly even relative - what is midrange pricing in one part of the country may be high end somewhere else and vise versa.
"if you want first quality oats, you have to be willing to pay first quality price. If you are willing to settle for oats that have already gone through the horse, they do come a little cheaper"
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Thanks for remembering that point. Actually I not only want an inexpesive solution but one that is different.
A hardwood floor in my home really would end up being a waste unless it was recycled hardwood and even then I wouldn't waste it.
I'm not against laminates but I have personally seen too many people with delaminating floors. This probably won't be the case for me as I treat things radically different than most people but the only ones I like the look of at all are the more expensive selections. Why? Becuase companies know that's what people will want.
I've considered cork, especially since it will add another insulating factor, but again the better designs are more expensive. Same with bamboo. I'd go with either in a heartbeat if I could.
I like the vinyl planks, especially the ones with attached padding, but again, price is higher. I spent about three hours at one shop looking at all they have and can order, finally finding a design and it was $5.29 a sq ft. The owner is the friend of a friend and said he could give me a discount but that to floor my entire home would still cost at least 6k w/o labor.
I realise costs have risen but right now that's not an option for me. I have a roof and foundation that need fixing first. Ergo my looking into alternative flooring. I have one friend who put a laminate in their kitchen because the old vinyl was damaged due to the dishwasher leaking. Actually, it buckled the floor. They spent over $1500 for what they told me was a temporary floor until the remodeled the house the following year. Interestingly their budget it only slightly higher than mine. They can waste what they want but not me. Not at $1500.
I thought maybe, just maybe someone might have known someone who has or did a plywood floor and could tell me a little more about it than I can gleen via Google. I guess not. Thanks.
`Casper
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I am not a big fan of laminates. If you were inclined that way I'd suggest the engineered wood instead, since it's not a whole lot more expensive.

My sister did this - it looks good (a lot better than I expected) but it was not cheap.

I think what that is saying is that plywood (as opposed to engineered wood) is simply not at all common as a flooring material. Whether that's because people simply don't think of it, or because it doesn't work very well, is something you'll have to decide.
John
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On 2/17/2015 12:06 PM, John McCoy wrote:

Quite a few y ears ago I had laminate installed on stairs and a small area fromt he stairs to the kitchen. I'm talking over 20 years now, maybe 25. It shows no signs of wear and still looks pretty good and will probably outlast me. This was WilsonArt brand though, not some $1 a foot stuff.
In my downstairs family room and hallway, I put in Mannington engineered wood. The hallway got wet twice from a leak. It dried out and stayed in place. I did replace it this past fall with ceramic tile when I was doing the bathroom floor. I was amazed at how well the engineered wood held up after a couple of soakings. Whatever finish they use is very tough and played hell on my miter saw blade.
I'm a firm beliver in the "get what you pay for" thing.
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Most of the pre-finished hardwood and engineered wood useUV cured poly loaded with aluminum oxide. Tough stuff. Same material used in the wear layer of a lot of the better laminates.
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 17:06:40 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy

Years ago my uncle used fir plywood for flooring. It was high quality - no voids and G1S, and it did not stand up well at all.
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Was it treated with anything? Paint? Clear coat?? Was it large or small pieces? Planks??
I would expect plywood flooring to hold up better in the rooms we use less or very little, like the guest room. I would imagine that it wouldn't do as well in the kitchen or bathrooms unless it was coated very well to prevent any moisture seepage and I used special care.
I have seen a couple of painted plywood floors that have looked spectacular but I am researching to find out how well that will hold up and what options there are for treating it.
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wrote:

It was 4X4 or 4X8 3/4" T&G finished with an industrial oil finish (we are talking 40+ years ago)

My aunt was a very large woman. the plywood separated/delaminated in the high traffic areas. I don't think moisture was a problem, but I couldn't say for sure. When it saparated near the panel edge, it would flake off and when it started to go, it went FAST. I think they got less than 3 years out of it.

I've seen painted plywood floors too - with porch enamel -not in normal living area but in workshop areas. It was OH for a shop but I wouldn't want it in my house.. Better than worn through linoleum I guess - but when the top layer of the plywood wears through it and the worn linoleum are about even. A hardwood plywood would stand up better, if it had a full top ply instead of a paper-thin veneer - which won't take any abuse at all.
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I'm thinking the owner may be pissed at your friend because a brief bit of browsing reveals a wealth of wood look vinyl planks in the range of $0.75 - $2.00 per sq. ft.
And if you like the look of parquet, wood look vinyl parquet is available for $0.50 up. And not "up" all that much.
Time was - and probably still - one could buy actual wood parquet, unfinished, quite reasonably. It was reasonable because it was both unfinished and it was relatively thin (<1/2" IIRC). It was easy to lay and an oil finish worked well.
--

dadiOH
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That could be. He was fine the first hour but as time went on his was less inclined to help. Our friends were there to purchase a floor and pretty much picked out the second thing they saw. I'm a bit more finiky than that and, oh well, I have to live with it.

The parquet wood wasn't my idea. It was family. That was over 30 years ago and I don't recall for sure but I think it was prefinished wood.

I supposed if I had no choice but it's not really my style. I like simpler floors. Hardwood planks, darker rather than lighter, subway tile, simple recycled glass tile. Those kinds of things.
If my father-in-law were still alive, I'd buy his old barn, tear it down, keep some wood for my floors and sell the rest. Sadly that barn is deteriorating rapidly since his passing and it has lovely wood in it, including chestnut. His widow doesn't care or talk to family. Sad.
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 11:53:23 -0500, "Mike Marlow"

Well, friends had laminate put in the kitchen of their cottage. The fridge frosted up and leaked some water on the floor. Just a weee little bit - and thelaminate swelled up like a carbunkle. When it dried, it shrunk back down most of the way but didn't look perfect any more - and shortly after it started to flake. That was cheap 8mm crap.
I put 14mm laminate in my rec-room/office. it has chipped/flaked at a few spots on the edges of the "boards" to the point the green "saw-dust" core is showing - and there are several spots where the finish is showing pitting or flaking. The 42 year old hardwood on the top floor (bedrooms) is holding up just fine - never been sanded or refinished (since initial installation - typical old style oak strip, sanded and finished in place) and I put prefinished ash in the living/dining room - I expect it to stand up much better than the laminate. Cost per square foot difference between the laminate and the hardwood (material only) was less than 15%. ANd frankly, I'd rather install the hardwood, using the air-nailer than install that crappy click laminate that just "clicks" together and floats. I damaged more laminate boards trying to get them to snap together than I did hardwood by having the nails turn around and come back up after hitting a hidden nail or knot.
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2015 11:22:31 -0500

I've seen plywood floors that were finished it looked fine to me they stained it and coated it with something semi-glossy brownish stain so the wood was visible but on the darker side it was just a small office
maybe do one room or a bathroom and see how you like it
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That's what I was trying to find out. What the ones I gound via Goole might be coated with. My guess would be something akin to gym floors?

That is one of my thoughts. I am hoping to keep as many rooms the same as possible. I like continuity. If I did a plywood floor, I could work on rooms one or two at a time as I had the cash. If I buy flooring, I have to consider dye lots, etc., which can make things more difficult, especially where immediate expense is concerned. Am I being clear?
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The best you could do that is easily available is oil based polyurethane. One of the pre-catalyzed finishes might be better - don't know, never used them - but it is not likely you would find them in stock anywhere.
Over and above the durability of whatever topcoat you might wind up with is the plywood itself. You haven't indicated what sort you are thinking of but I would assume a hardwood. If so, keep in mind the fact that the hardwood part is only the top layer and that it is 1/40" or less in thickness; all the rest of the plywood is layers of a lesser wood, generally poplar, and that is not resistant to denting.
Years ago, a friend of mine put down solid white oak floors in his offices. In a relatively short time - especially around the reception area - it looked as if a horde of machinests had been loosed on it with ball peen hammers. In this case, the indentations were mostly but not exclusively due to the small area on the heels of women's shoes.
IOW, a plywood floor is going to get dents. That doesn't mean ply is no good, just that it is meant for cabinets and the like, not floors. Will it work on floors? Sure but how long it stays looking good is a direct function of how well it is treated; IMO, it would have to be babied.
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Fair question since I do not do floors professionally. I would say that out of the 10-12 people I know who have either self installed or pro installed laminate floor in the last ten years, at least 7-8 of those are, after 3-7 years, experiencing damage.
Honestly I would say that some of that is cause and effect of what people do in thier homes for which those floors were not recommended or improperly installed.
Would you recommend a laminate floor in a room of aquariums? 125-300 gallons? And running water hoses across it back and forth to a sink to empty and refill once a month? How long would that floor last?
I am trying to honestly explain what I have personally seen. The person with the tanks has this light oak laminate (Pergo?) in their kitchen area which goes under the aquariums. I have watched them drain and refill those tanks across the floor and use buckets to speed drain. That floor was not designed for that much water exposure. Boards everywhere are peeling, bubbling, buckling, warping, etc. Side note: They remove their shoes on the carpet.
So in fairness, I believe it's all about usage. I don't do aquariums anymore. I used to do salt water and design tanks. I would never put that kind of floor in under my tanks, not unless I had something else on top to prevent water and salt damage and even then, probably not.

All I was asking is if anyone had experience, or knew of someone who did, with plywood flooring. Was that asking too much?

I have not ruled out plywood flooring. I am just disappointed I could not get additional information on it here but that is not surprising. I will find more information elsewhere, before I choose my floor.
I choose things in life becuase it fits my needs and liking, not based on what sells, fads, or any other fleeting sources. I am certain many won't agree and that's fine as they are entitled to their own choices.
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