Flooring

[Casper]

Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring. Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more (price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down, especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

`Casper

[Sonny]

I'm supposing this home is on pillars, not a slab.

I might suspect the OSB has started to expand because of moisture, over tim e. I suspect you'd need to pull up the OSB, if its damaged that way, or i n any way. It may no longer be a proper subflooring, anymore. Do you kno w if there is other subflooring, under the OSB, and if it's in good shape?

A moisture barrier is a consideration, somewhere in the mix. Is there pres ently one and is it still in good shape.

I'm not familiar with plywood flooring, but I suppose you'd have to glue it down, maybe toe-nailed on the edges. You'd need a good subfloor to glue it to.

Other than these thoughts, I have no info/knowledge on the ply flooring an d for what type of home it's best recommended for, i.e., pillared or slab, if applicable.

Sonny

[-MIKE-]

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other

I would worry about the seems when using plywood. The subfloor would have to be very, very flat and true for me to even consider it. You're talking four foot seems in both directions for every "tile." The slightest bit of dip or rise four feet away is going to mess up the seem and cause a lip.

One advantage of a laminated, engineered "plank" system is its ability ride the rises and dips in the subfloor.

As for the finish... there's almost nothing you can do on your own that will match the durability and thickness of the finishes they can put on in the factory at a flooring manufacturer. I'm always amazed at how durable that stuff is.

[dadiOH]

As witnessed by the photos on the site you linked, hardwood plywood CAN look decent as a floor. Nevertheless, I personally wouldn't do it for several reasons:

1. The face veneer on all hardwood plywood nowadays is very thin...on the order of 1/40" if you are lucky. One ding and you are done.
2. I noticed a number of the photos used exposed screws to fasten. I could not abide screw heads showing and the work to counter sink them, glue in face grain plugs then trim the plugs is considerable. At least one of the examples used biscuits; doable but rather fussy to do it well and - as others noted - you would need a good, flat sub-floor. Of course, you would need that for most anything.

I would think the best solution for a decent looking floor that won't break the bank is laminate. You can get it for less than $1.00 sq.ft. - you would want 8mm or better thick - and it is easy to install, just lay one down and snap the next one to it. Very easy. Some would need crosscutting, a few planks would likely have to be ripped. No finishing needed and it would be far more durable than hardwood ply; it would also be much less costly and easier to do.

If you like carpet, that can be relatively inexpensive too. We put about

1250 sq.ft. in a rental about a year ago; total cost installed - including 7% tax - was $1808. It would have been more if we had not done the tear out ourselves. It isn't going to last 20 years but it should look decent after ten with reasonable care.

We also put in about 700 sq.ft. of laminate, cost was just about $0.80 per sq.ft + labor which we hired and the cost of which I do not recall.

[Electric Comet]

Light weight concrete might work. Can be as low as $4/sq.ft.

[Casper]

Neither. Manufacture (mobile) home.

OSB (only think I can see) looks fine except a bit dirty where some of the peel-n-stick tiles have moved out of alignment.

Been 20 years and OSB and floor looks solid and dry. We've got a ton of insulation and very think barrier underneath the eniter home.

Seems some like the nails but I don't particularly. I see many being glued down. If you Google plywood flooring, you'll see ton and a number of them are quite professional looking.

Thanks for the input.

[Casper]

Sounds like you are assuming 4ft x 8ft. I have no intention of laying out full sheets. I would either cut down into planks or squares.

Wood floors can do that too if they are installed correctly. I have seen parquet floors and regular hardwood done badly.

A factory can do both good and bad finishes. A friend had laminate installed, professionally, and it is now buckling and peeling. I told him it was not a good choice for his kitchen but he wouldn't listen. His family makes too much of a watery mess for that flooring.

Again, if it were in my budget, I would get the vinyl laminate I have already picked out but locally there is nothing under $5sq/ft+fees. Home Despot or Lowes has that stuff on a roll that I don't want.

[Casper]

Point taken but dings are better than tears, etc on the vinyl and carpet. I am certain you have seen how much crap gets under carpet and I don't care what vaccum anyone uses, it don't come up period.

Some people seem to like the screw look. I don't, but I did see a ones that do not and I suspect they are glued. My subfloor is flat, that's not an issue. The entire floor may pitch a tiny bit, but no buckling or warping, etc.

Again, not around here except for Home Despot and Lowes and I don't want that chit. I've looked and looked around here and cheapest I could find was $2.49sq/ft but that had to be special ordered, which was an extra fee and shipping and no returns.

Hate carpet. No vaccum in the world ever gets out the dirt. And truthfully stains never come out either.

Well I envy you that. I wish I could find it for that price. Only things here even close to that are HD and Lowes and it's ugly. Mind you this is no five star caslte, but it's my caslte dangit, no ugly!

[Casper]

I thought of that but don't think it can hold the weight. Was looking into concrete counter tops and people all around here saying it can't hold the weight. A friend just redid his counter tops and no one would put anything else on but a laminate. They all said it won't hold the weight and I think they're full of BS. His home is on a cinderblock and concrete foundation. Unless he's got the cheapest cabinets in the world, I couldn't see why he could not get corian or a similar top.

[Doug Winterburn]

Lowes has Bruce 3/8" floating engineered wood flooring for $2.99 sq/ft. It's 3" wide and random length. I put it in my house and love it.

[John McCoy]

-MIKE- wrote in news:mbljha$958$ [e-mail]:

inexpensive-

I would agree with this. With "normal" tiles you have a grout line which hides small irregularities, with these tiles you don't.

Don't really agree with this, if you're talking glue-down. It depends on the quality of the glue and the thickness of the planks, but they have a tendency to come unstuck on the dips. Nailing or stapling to an underlayment might be OK with dips (altho I doubt it would be much different).

Incidently, to dadiOH's point, the top layer on engineered flooring can be quite thick, altho you pay for that.

Yeah, whatever they use is far harder than the poly you get in gallon cans at the borg. Counter point to that is, if the floor does get dinged or scratched, it's not simple to sand and revarnish like you can with a plain plank floor.

John

[-MIKE-]

I was assuming 4x4 like in the link you posted. If you're doing planks... even more reason to go with engineered. The link also showed cabinet grade plywood which is going to be pretty stiff. A 3-8" wide board can rise and fall with dips in the floor and keep tight seems. A

4x4' stiff panel cannot.

I'm not talking about the shitty laminate that is a picture of wood stuck to 3/8" of cardboard. I'm talking about engineered which is essentially the same plywood you're thinking of using, but with manageable widths that are T&G milled, with a very thick top ply and an extremely durable finish applied at the factory.

Lumber liquidators has some very decent stuff for under $2.50sq.ft. That would $80 per sheet of plywood. If can find good enough cabinet grade plywood for that and put on a perfect and durable a finish like they can at a factory for under that price, then more power to you.

With the engineered stuff, one person (you) could have your home done in a few days. Maybe less if you really kicked ass on it.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Mike is talking about pre-finished wood, not laminate. I have some engineered wood in a heavily traveled family room (most used entrance) and it shows no wear in 10 years.

Some laminate is good, others are crap. You can't expect much from the stuff on sale for 99 cents a foot.

[clare]

Most laminate that costs less than quality hardwood is verging on junk. Good pre-finished hardwood has a UV cured urethane finish heavily charged with aluminum oxide. The stuff wears like diamond. It is generally applied with a pad in VERY thin layers,UV cured between applications in a dust free finishing line. Most laminate is made in a hell-hole in China where the wind blows all kinds of crap through, and it's made of who-knows-what, pressed into a quasi-board and finished with a photo-representation of wood impregnated with melamine resin.

[dadiOH]

This is the electronic age...there are a ton of online sellers and they sell samples too.

There are also chains - such as

that have stores near to just about anyone and have a broad selection in a wide price range. They aren't the cheapest but shipping isn't extra (assuming store pickup).

In my case, I bought online from a Tampa retailer. He then orders from the distributor who shipped to me. Retailer makes a bit but much less than if I had walked into his store.

Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. I don't much care for laminate, generally dislike things that try to look like something they are not, but I don't think it is ugly.

I share your prejudice against carpet. That's why my house has 3500+ sq.ft of Saltillo tile :)

[DerbyDad03]

"This domain may be for sale. Buy this Domain"

Perhaps you meant...

(no "s")

[dadiOH]

Yeah, thanks.

[Leon]

I would look at what the definition of plywood is. There is "Engineered" hard wood flooring that is actually plywood and then there is more common hardwood veneered plywood that is typically used for furniture. I would not put much trust in the later being a good material for flooring although the link you provided has the appearance of the common furniture grade plywood. Just because a designer uses it does not mean by any stretch of the imagination that the material choice is a good one. On a side note my wife and I visited a model home in a new neighborhood. The floors were sand stone, very attractive but tons of grout and you could already see wear paths in the stone from traffic. I would guesstimate that the floor had to be replaced with in a year or two. I would highly suspect that a common plywood floor might have a similar life expectancy.

[jloomis]

an inexpensive underlayment over the entire floor is a route to take? john

Anyone here has any experience with plywood flooring?

I am considering this as an inexpensive alternative to other flooring. Almost all (bathrooms can wait a bit) all of the flooring for 1400 sq ft home needs replacing. Currently it is 70% carpet, 20% sheet vinyl and 10% vinyl squares.

Carpet is 20 years old, worn and coming apart at all the seams. Twenty year old sheet vinyl isn't as bad; one major hole in washroom and two small ones in bathrooms; mostly it's all discoloring. Vinyl tiles are press-n-stick to OSB and are shifting badly. My hunch is the texture of the OSB isn't right for those kind of tiles.

I'm trying to ascertain how well plywood will hold up, if properly treated, and how difficult is it to put down. I've seen some wild patterns but I plan to stick to a simple design, maybe a fancier edge or something depending on cost and labor (if I do this myself).

Would standard wood flooring treatments be enough on plywood? Or are there better, less expensive options. I don't want a 'cheap' floor, or cheap looking. I can't afford right now to shell out 6-7k or more (price quotes) for vinyl planks, even though I do like the look and quality of those.

Yes I have been searching for other options. Yes I have checked pricing everywhere I could find within a reasonable distance. I really would prefer to do this all as one floor and keep the cost down, especially if I end up having to pay for labor. Thoughts?

`Casper

[John McCoy]

Doug Winterburn wrote in news:54de7326$0$29546$c3e8da3$ [e-mail]:

Well, I'm glad your satisfied, but...

Bruce is extremely low quality and badly lacking in durability. At $2.99 sq, I'd say it's substantially overpriced.

You can probably find Anderson for not much more (altho you might have to order it shipped, which adds to the cost). Anderson is a much higher quality product.

Incidently, I would advise against buying any kind of wood flooring at either Home Depot or Lowes. Not only is the product cheap (in the quality sense), but the glue they carry is also a lesser-quality glue. You won't pay a whole lot more if you go to a flooring dealer.

(btw, you do not want to tear out a glue-down floor, so make sure you choose right the first time. Don't ask me how I know this...)

John