flat chisel back - only at cutting edge or along entire length?

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Geeze, April 7 and the meds have already run out. Hmmmmmm, I can't tell from here. Could be hominy, could be corn. Anyone?
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no, just asshole comments (not YOURS; Chuck's)
...but you are teetering on the edge.
dave
Patrick Olguin wrote:

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Patrick Olguin wrote:

Looks PURPLE!!! from where I am.
UA100
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On 7 Apr 2004 09:47:47 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (Patrick Olguin) wrote:

Well he did manage to escape my killfile (through repost) and sucker in two of the wreck's nice guys who are trying to reason with him.
Alan Bierbaum
web site: http://www.calanb.com
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reason? NOT!
they are trying their best to ignore my experience and the experience of about 10 others (approx) that Marples chisels don't hold an edge. What's to "reason". It's just facts they don't want to face.
dave
Alan Bierbaum wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote:

Just in case there is anyone reading this thread for any reason other than "entertainment value", I would recommend that you do a Google groups advanced search of the wreck on the phrase "blue chips". Add a qualifier like "value" or "bargain" to limit the search if needed.
I'm sure you'll find that these chisels have been widely-regarded as a good value. Not great, but decent, and worth the money.
It is certainly possible that the newer ones are suffering from QC issues, but I don't think it's wise to dismiss the experiences of *many* knowledgeable wooddorkers (certainly a heckuva lot more than 10) just because Dave says it's so.
FWIW, even the folks who said that Blue Chips are a good value warned that you still have to be aware of the possibility of getting a bad one in the bunch.
Chuck Vance
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Alan, with all due respect, reasoning with BAD is akin to reasoning with a brand new baseball sitting on a tee, with the outfield fence just a few feet shy of 200'. Reasoning would be inappropriate. So, ya limber up a little bit, take a slightly uppercut swing and watch it sail out of the tiny park. Not very challenging, but somewhat satisfying as you put your gear away and go do something productive.
Best regards, O'Deen
obww - allowing one's shellac top-coat to dry that extra week or so makes rubbing-out a ridiculously easy experience, as the shellac has thoroughly hardened, and still cuts easily with whatever abrasive it is you've chosen.
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These chisels will be all but impossible to flatten properly. If they were slightly concave across the chisel width they'd okay, but convex down it's length is not good. If you decided to use them anyway they'd be impossible to use well in most chiseling operations where a flat back is necessary for a straight cut.
Layne
On 6 Apr 2004 11:35:43 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net (Daniel) wrote:

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Layne <> wrote in message (Daniel) wrote:

Layne, Daniel, et al.,
It's my understanding that, although a flat chisel back is optimal, a slightly convex shape down the length is acceptable. Concave along its length is absolutely no good. 1mm along the length of a Blue Chip doesn't seem too outrageous since they have relatively long blades. Only try to polish the business end of the back and they should work fine. Just my opinion.
Cheers, Mike
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were slightly concave across the chisel width they'd okay, but convex down it's length is not good.

+ + + Why should concave be worse than convex? Concave certainly is easier to sharpen properly. PvR
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schreef

Imagine you're paring a bit of wood off of the wall of a mortise. The back of the chisel serves to keep the edge of the chisel cutting along a single plane. The benefit of a flat back should be apparent. If the back has a concave curve along its length, the edge will tend to dig in rather than maintain a flat cut. If the back has a convex curve, the edge will tend to come out of the cut. This can be compensated for by slightly adjusting the angle of the chisel relative to the wood, but I don't think you can compensate for the concave situation. I could be missing something here so please fill me in if you have a different conclusion.
Cheers, Mike
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+ + + It seems to me that having a slipping chisel (convex), shooting off to wherever, is worse than a chisel digging in (concave). In both cases you will have to correct and orient the chisel by feel, but I'd say that a chisel that tends to dig in is safer and and easier to correct than a chisel that loses its grip? PvR
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Japanese chisels typically are hollowed on the back, either ground or hammered. The back is then flattened so that there is a flat surrounding the hollow. I've read that this is for easier flattening in the future as the chisel is sharpened (and thus shortened), and for less friction during use. After many flattenings the back may need to be rehollowed with a little hammering.
--
John Snow
"If I knew what I was doing, I wouldn't be here"
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Thank you all for replying, especially to the few who posted useful comments.
I apologize for being the genesis of some bad flame wars.
Daniel wrote:

[snip]
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don't blame yourself. Blame Chuck (Conan) for his utter lack of self control. He even admitted he went into bait mode; all because he and I aren't exactly the best of buds. :)
Keep posting!
dave
foo wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote...

He doesn't blame himself. He is expressing disappointment. He doesn't blame Chuck either. Nor should he.
Jim
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Jim Wilson wrote:

Thanks, Jim. What's sad is that I really was going to avoid the urge to slap Dave around a little until he posted the following:
> the tide seems to be turning against Marples lately. did I lead the > charge? > > (In my humble, highly unqualified, seldom respected newbie opinion, > the Marples are tres substandard, due to the softness of the metal > they are currently using; just like the Buck I tried for grins.)
The sheer hubris (look it up, Dave) of it was more than I could stand.
FWIW, my comments about using the chisels this past week were absolutely true. But I had decided I would not post any more of my own experiences with them, since it serves no purpose. I had even resisted the urge to address his comments about "wreck idiots" (i.e., folks who disagree with him, and/or have more knowledge or experience than him).
But when he posted that load above ... well, I just lost it. :-)
Chuck Vance
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wrote:

hey, don't forget folks who simply have more *chisels* than him.
<G>
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that's mighty presumptuous of you.
dave
Jim Wilson wrote:

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Bay Area Dave wrote...

There you go again.
</reagan>
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