Fish eye contamination source?

After several coats of Target USL and TransTint as tones without problems started topcoating with clear USL and up pops fish eyes! Received a shipment of Fuhr #330 Universal Cleaner that was used followed by white vinegar/water to neutralize the cleaner then 1:1 acetone/water to rinse out gun between coatings. Sanded down today leaving pinpoint spots of shiny finish and sprayed clear USL and they returned. Wasn't surprised but would like to know what the cause is to avoid replication! Soaked and brushed gun components prior to spraying today but didn't use vinegar as that is MY primary suspect (from my point of ignorance as chem lectures weren't meaningful and they were YRARS ago). Ideas?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
You didn't, by any chance use a silicone product on your tablesaw did you? RJ

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
I'm assuming you're talking about Target Oxford Ultima Spray Lacquer, which is a water reduced acrylic copolymer. (Why are most acronyms three letters? Will we ever run out of them?) Haven't used it, but would expect behavior similar to most other water bourne finishes. Since you applied vinegar, I assume you used the cleaner to strip the finish from the wood, and not just to clean the gun.
Provided you did wash it off, and I suspect it's only used for PH correction, I don't expect the vinegar to play a role here. If you suspect the wood was contaminated, a barrier coat of dewaxed shellac should resolve it. I don't think that cleaner would remove the contaminents. Alternately, is it possible the issue is not fish eyes, but perhaps peal? You might try posting this on the Homestead finishing forum, as Jeff J. sells those products. GerryG
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 13:08:47 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The fisheyes more than likely came from something on your hands. Even the smallest bit of contaminent will make them eyes. Did you or anyone touching your wood use any kind of hand creams? Seen it happen many many times.
wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Could you have used a silicone containing product ANYWHERE in the shop where you are working? You would be surprised how a lubricant used at one end of the shop, or near an intake for your ventilation system can play havoc with fisheye. I will assume that you did not use a fisheye destroyer in your gun prior to the problem. Vinegar is not the problem. You may need a more appropriate gun cleaner.
To deal with the current problem, spray two light coats of dewaxed shellac. Do not brush them on as it will only stir the silicone to the top.
Good Luck.

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

any kind of aerosol spray (solvent or lube) used anywhere near (or what may seem to be far) your painting can cause fisheye problems.
I used some spray lube about 35 ft (outside & away) from garage painting area and 1/2 hour later painted some window sashses in the garage. Fisheyes appeared & reapeared for the next hour or so.
The spray droplets can remain air borne for a very long time.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Besides the other stuff mentioned by others... Did you by chance use air tools during your sanding? Oil can find its way out of the system through the exhaust of the tools.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Thanks much for comments and I believe what I did to cause the problem was rapidly dump the compressor air toward the direction of the table and the vapor was possibly dirty as it settled out of the air. I put a ball valve on the tank for draining air/water and recall one quick turn of the valve completely open and a cloud of vapor exited. Shellac coats today and more Ultima Spray Lacquer tommorow. Target Coatings switched from their Premium name for PSL to Ultima for USL. Upgrade to ball valve to control direction of vapor cloud shortly.
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 13:08:47 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

[snip]
1. Silicone used in shop. 2. air Oiler used with hoses you used for your spray gun.
Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
NO silicone in garage that is known! Disposable air filter at regulator at gun input. Brad nailer gets oil so no oiler anywhere. Separate post identified supposed source of contamination, my dumping the compressor tank too fast with vapor stream aimed in general direction of table and resultant droplets contaminating tabletop. Two coats dewaxed shellac sprayed today with clearcoat USL to go on probably tomorrow.
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 10:37:16 -0400, snipped-for-privacy@lycos.com wrote:

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On the silicone sensitivity issue: I had a 20x40 basement. Did machining at one end, using silicone and other lub sprays, and the compressor in the middle. At the other end I'd open the bulkhead doors and set up an exhaust fan to do spray finishing. Used oil and water base, and lived there 27 years but never saw fish eye. Not to say you shouldn't be careful, but just that it doesn't seek out the wood.
BTW, silicon is _not_ the only contaminant that causes fish eye, especially if your using water base.
GerryG
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:49:06 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

At a place now defunct that made automotive interior trim components such as painted rear package trays (shelf panels). The spraying of silicone by maintenace techs in that 100,000 sq ft building caused fisheye on our paint line. The shelf panels were made out of 'superwood'. Something like sheet goods on the line between masonite and chip board. The backs of old tv's had this stuff in the old days before plastic. We used to 3d form the stuff and then paint it, later, carpet it.
This was with waterborn paints.
Wes
Wes
--
Reply to:
Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Two coats 1.5# Sealcoat then USL. First 80% of USL went fine then fish eyes showed up. Hour later second coat USL with almost 100% of surface with contamination. Got separator to put at compressor and will change the DeVilbiss disposable filter at the gun prior to any more spraying. Asked DeVilbiss tech support via E-mail about criteria for detemining end of life but would be surprised to get any response, identified myself as hobbiest user. Still would be nice to know how to determine when to change! Post at www.targetcoatings.com today asked about fish eyes in USL though he was finishing two different things and one was free and other contaminated.
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 11:49:06 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Hmm..does that sound a bit suspicious? Wonder if you might want to let that USL settle in the can for awhile, then take a took with a raking light. If not that, might be the hose. With a clean hose, most compressors (even oil lubs) will not put out enough vapor or oil to immediately contaminate. So if your hose and gun are clean, try getting rid of the other stuff.
If all else fails, finish it with shellac:-) GerryG
On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:26:57 -0400, " snipped-for-privacy@vcoms.net"

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Shellac HAS been considered BUT that would be running awat from the problem. Had an abrasion on my ankle that refused to heal. A "dermatologist" said "We can cut it off and thow it away and wonder what it was" and I don't want to do that again. Asked Jeff Jewitt about end of life issue and he agreed he'd like to quantify it but too many variables. Couple of wash coats of shellac and the USL again. Another can of USL on the way. Contaminated filter most likely (I think).

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.