first hand cut dovetail

[Electric Comet]

thanks to Paul Sellers and whoever posted his link I did a dovetail by hand

it didn't come out too bad it's a little loose but I didn't use a vise so my sights were set low

I got a low priced saw that is 16 points and it was fine I had some 3/8-inch oak at 2-1/2-inch wide

the hardest part was making it clear which pieces to remove and which side of the lines to cut along

I drew a picture in my sketch book first to help clarify the joint

dovetails look nice but I think a box joint will be suitable for many of the applications I am thinking about

I am undecided on which way the pins should point for say a small knicknack box

I don't think there's a structural advantage but more of an aesthetic

the pieces were just some scrap but I may actually make a small box using this as a base

[graham]

Did you cut the pins first or the tails? Graham

[Electric Comet]

the right way of course how else would Paul Sellers do it or teach it

BTW he gets my vote for the most amazing woodshop I've seen I can't imagine walking to work each day he's fortunate but he deserves that location it's the perfect fit pun intended

[graham]

There's no right way, just tradition. Brits traditionally cut tails first whereas Europeans cut pins first. In many cases it doesn't matter but when I tried pins first on some US red oak, it was very difficult to cut precise tails in such a coarse-grained wood. Matching the pins to "variable" tails would have been much, much easier. Graham

[Electric Comet]

well i only know from watching one of his vids that's only about doing dovetails

he has an interesting style that's easy for me to follow

i did the tails first and it seems without even trying that doing the pins first would be harder

not sure what kind of oak this is it is very hard

[graham]

I took classes from a couple of Germans who insisted on pins first. It was easy when working with pine or spruce and I still have the first box made that way. I also have the one I tried in red oak as a reminder!

I can assure you, it would have been.

I think the reason the Brits probably did tails first was that much of their carcase work was in oak. Furthermore, drawers with blind dovetails would have necessitated tails first and when you get into a habit.......

[Electric Comet]

i should try it if for nothing more than gaining some insight

fair warning

i am learning as i go here

i don't understand why tails first for a blind dovetail i looked at an image just now of one and couldn't unravel that

i wasn't sure what a blind dovetail was so i looked it up i will not do blind dovetails i will not do blind dovetails i will not do blind dovetails

i will probably try blind dovetails one day god help me

[Nick]

Of course you will, natural curiousity has been sparked up. Then have a look at blind secret mitred dovetails. Never tried this as I've never had the need but imagine it's possibly the most complicated woodworking joint.

50+ years ago I was taught to cut pins first and then use the pins to mark directly onto its partner the tails using a marking knife. I imagine a dovetail would be quite worthless in anything but a hard/dense timber. Traditional timbers for me are oak, beech and ash. Sadly elm is just not available. Homegrown stuff is getting harder to find but some decent quality stuff can be found. Works well enough for me.

Sharpen your pencil and get cracking! Good luck and all the best, Nick.

[John McCoy]

"Nick" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

They're not actually as hard as they look. Not that I'm very good at them, mind you, but I wouldn't say they're much harder than thru dovetails.

Hmmm, I'd argue for fox-wedged tenons as hardest, albeit not complicated in conception. Most complicated would probably be some of the locking scarph joints shipbuilders used in the days of wooden ships.

Dunno why you'd say that. It's common to dovetail softer woods like poplar or white pine for the sides of drawers. Some folk cut the angle a little wider in softer woods (others say it doesn't make any difference).

John

[Electric Comet]

now i will have to look i may have seen one while look at blind and 1/2 blind dovetails i at least understand blind mitred but the secret part needs research

maybe that refers to the time spent making the joint and the fact that most artisans keep that a secret

mark twain said something like a good impromptu speech takes more than 3 weeks

we wood artisans could say a good blind secret mitred dovetail takes as long as needed

other poster was taught this way too

i think the application makes a big difference other wood might make sense in some cases the size too could factor in

i strive for cheapest and go with it cheap matches my budget as does free