Finish question on pine

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I made a coffee table from butcherboard knotty pine. For a finish, I like using the old forumla: 1/3 BLO, 1/3 polyurethane, 1/3 tung oil. My question: Will this mixture hold up on pine with spills and hot cups?
Thanks,
S.
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Personally, I don't know why you would add all that stuff to your poly. If you want something that will take heat, is abrasion resistant, and will cure hard, simply put on the poly.
There is no reason to put that other business in your poly. Although your BLO probably had nothing to do with linseed (flax) oil, and your tung oil is almost certainly not related to the nut, the will most like have organic resins that will cause them to cure to a soft finish.
To illustrate this to your own satisfaction and to compare abrasion resistance, coloration, etc., try this:
Take a piece of the same pine you have made your project from and apply one part of each of your 3 ingredients. Let them dry/cure for a week or so. Run a piece of sandpaper across them; which one scratches the easiest? Set something wet on each test area and leave it for an hour or two. Which one has the least discoloration or damage?
You will easily see that the addition of the softer resins does nothing for the longevity and durability of your finish.
If you are doing this to make some kind of wipe on finish, buy a quality wipe on finish and use that.
Most finishes made today are made specifically to be used as they are formulated. OF COURSE you can do anything you want with them, but backyard alchemy isn't always a good solution. In this day and age there are plenty of over the counter solutions to good finishes.
Robert
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wrote:

I have used, with great success, Akzo's Sikkens Autocryl Clear. It's an automotive clear coat and it is truly clear like water. One can infinitely alter the sheen by adding Matting Clear. It is a 3-part product that can also be made to flex a bit more with an additive. Coat one, add an extra dose of thinner. and soak the pine till you almost get runs.
Quickly clean your equipment.
Then sand with 320 Then spray on full strength Autocryl and you will get a finish which will last and last, won't yellow and is very abrasive resistant. Be careful spraying 5 piece kitchen cabinet doors, as it will adhere the panel to the rails and stiles and break stuff. DAMHIKT
Then quickly clean your equipment again. You can do most of the cleaning with regular lacquer thinner, but the final rinse should be Sikkens thinners.
I have used this process in commercial applications and it wears like iron.
It is a bit of a pain to handle, and for SURE wear high organic compound mask. Better yet, use a positive air mask. The hardener will kill you.... and I mean KILL you.
Drawback? And ONLY drawback? The stuff is expensive. 330,000 colours. But.. it is a very high solids product and if you want high gloss, Steinway piano black, with a wet look, that's the stuff.
Here's a price list: http://www.licariautobodysupply.com/pricelist/sikkens.htm
It will cost you around $ 400.00 for 1.5 gallons, but remember, very little flashes off.
I grew up down wind from the original Sikkens factory in The Netherlands and smelled my fair share of BLO, they didn't play with acrylics in that factory, just varnishes. I never minded that scent too much.
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My kinda guy!! It's messy, hard to work with, needs specialized equipment and safety procedures, requires proprietary cleaning solvents, IT COULD KILL YOU, and the only fault you find is that -
it's expensive??!!
I laughed hard enough to fall out of my chair on that one. I have this picture of you sitting there saying "whuut?... what's so funny?"
If someone asked me to finish a table with that stuff I would tell them to go soak their head in it!

Well, OK. That helps. RIGHT!!

I have only used their sealants and adhesives, and they are all top notch. I have never had any call to use their high end "coatings".
Robert
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In article <bfab9bb5-1a0c-4dae-b473-

Hi Robert,
The finish is a common formula. I think the might even sell it under the Maloof brand. I love the way it goes on easily and dries hard, keeping the feel of wood without the plastic polyurethane look and feel. My question is whether anyone has any experience with its durability on a soft wood like pine over a period of time.
Thanks,
s.
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On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 10:40:32 -0500, samson wrote:

Polyurethane is a varnish. In all the cases I know of it's a "short oil" varnish. All you're doing with the mix is changing it into a "long oil" varnish. You could do that a lot easier by just buying Watco.
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This formula is a favorite of mine as well. It is attributed to Sam Maloof and has the qualities you describe. It is also very easy to repair if there are problems.
I haven't used it on pine, but I did use it on a maple kitchen table. It is holding up very well.
-- Doug
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snipped-for-privacy@classtech.com says...

Thanks for the input everyone. I think I'll use the 1/3rd formula and see what happens. If it doesn't work out, I'll make another table, minus the learning mistakes, e.g., sanding the legs better when they are on the lathe!
S.
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Indeed, if that's all you want, put on poly. The way OP phrased the question, poly is probably the best answer.
But the finish he is describing is a favorite of mine because it has much of the wear resistance of poly, is closer to the wood (less "plasticky"), does an excellent job of popping figure, and is very easy to repair.

See above.

Why is BLO not linseed oil with metallic dryers? That's what the can says. Why is pure tung oil something else? I know "Tung Oil Finish" can be anything, but pure tung oil comes from a nut.

There are a lot of good over the counter solutions to good finishes. There is a lot of good over the counter furniture, too. But some of the nut jobs in this group keep trying to build the stuff themselves.
-- Doug
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In rereading my assumption, my language was probably too strong. I said "probably", I could see how the statement could confuse. Not too long ago (10 years?), it was a common practice for other, cheaper oils to be added to "BLO". It finally got to the point in the professional finishing community (of which I belong from time to time) questioned what was in the BLO we were buying.
A call to the tech support of CROWN by me, and a couple of other manufacturers confirmed there were different blends of oils in the BLO formula to "enhance performance" and to "extend shelf life" and to "ease application". Depending on the manufacturer, other oils included soya and other vegetable oils that were treated to polymerize when applied. Add this to the fact that BLO already has different solvents and driers in it, and you are using only the component of the flax seed.
There is no law that says "BLO must be of XX% to be considered pure" or any other such nonsense. In fact, there is no law that says that BLO has to be boiled, of which it never has been. So they are already selling a mislabeled product. This also gives them to the latitude to call their own blend of oils, solvents and driers "Boiled Linseed Oil" since it is understood that there isn't such an animal.

See above. But you can rest easier knowing that tung oil manufacturers are more careful than the BLO guys. Still, "pure tung oil" doesn't mean that all that is in your bottle is pure tung. It can have solvents, thinners, driers etc., to help the shelf life and application process. Remember, this isn't food. Not all ingredients will necessarily show up on the label.
Besides the fact that real 100% tung is really thick, takes a long time to dry, and won't buff to a high shine, here's how to tell if you have the real, unmodified recipe as mother nature made it.
If you are paying about $35 a quart, you probably have the real deal with no additives or formula modification.

I am thinking that was some kind of sarcasm, but I may be wrong. In any case, I would certainly encourage anyone that wanted to really learn about finishing to take the time needed to set up controlled experiments.
Folk lore, word of mouth, "I knew a guy", "this is the way the old Dutchmen did it" (it's OK... I'm a squarehead myself), and on an on don't cut it when the rubber meets the road. To me, what counts is a good looking, durable, WARRANTABLE finish.
If I can buy something over the counter that is bullet proof, I don't usually get the thrill out of channeling my heritage to the point of making my own home brew finishes.
And whilst we are throwing around Sam Maloof's name, if you are a fan or disciple, he has some great comments on this very subject of becoming one with your projects. Check his book out. One of the most no-nonsense tomes of woodworking I can remember reading.
Robert
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Back in the day it actually was boiled, which caused it to polymerize. I'm not aware of any sources for such a product today though.

According to the MSDS for my bottle of BLO, it contains flaxseed oil (at least 98%), Cobalt naphthenate, and Zirconium naphthenate. So not all manufacturers use a blend of oils.
Chris
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Good point.

Yeah, that's the stuff. $23.50 a liter from Lee Valley. http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p 049&cat=1,190,42942 "This product contains no thinners or driers".
I'm using it straight on a cherry crib for my SECOND grandson, due in about 6 weeks. GRIN.

Yeah, that was some kind of sarcasm. I hope you could see the smile I had while writing it. You did catch my point.

As a pro, your goals are different than mine. I certainly can see your point. Me, I want to build nice things and learn new stuff. I can afford to spend the time to experiment and I don't warrant anything.

I just added it to my Amazon wish list.
-- Doug
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"Douglas Johnson" wrote

Congratulations, my second grandson is due about the same time, in September. I'm also a big fan of the Sam Maloof finish, it works _beautifully_ on cherry, and walnut:
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/Hc30.jpg
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/18/08
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Consider this an official, double, "you suck". -- Doug
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Well, well. Congrats to you, good sir!
I hope for all the best - you know, 10 fingers, 10 toes and all that.
Got a new crib going yet?
Robert
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That's the juice. The real stuff. With no thinners or driers you have the real deal.

First, congratulations on the upcoming family member! Tung should be an excellent choice for the crib.
Not to sound confounding here, but tung oil is known for its lack of penetration. (I know, I know, are you ever happy, Robert?) However, most refinishers that use PURE tung as a base coat to other finishes thin it by about 50% or so to increase penetration.
I don't agree with this Russ on a lot of things and we have corresponded before. In this case though, you might find his articles on BLO and tung interesting. His observations are pretty widely accepted as are his application methods in these particular cases.
http://www.woodcentral.com/russ/finish6.shtml

Me, too. I just don't seem to do it anymore. I seem to learn out of necessity these days, not for the enjoyment.

You will love it. It is as much a commentary on things related to woodworking as it is instructive. His candor in using wood as a medium and his thoughts on that alone are worth the price of the book. He does does not believe that wood speaks to him nor does he channel any distant voices of ancient craftsmen.
He believes his time is precious, so as he says, when he communicates with wood he uses shorthand. He uses power tools when possible. He only came up with his own finish because he didn't like the ones that are out there. And in fact, according to folklore, he came up with his finish because some of his early work was rejected due to the use of heavy varnishes and oils.
Be sure and check out his comments on pages 64 - 65 when you get the book.
Robert
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I thinned the first coat by 50% with mineral spirits. That worked well to pop the curl in the cherry without it getting blotchy. I used straight tung oil for the second and third coats. After I'm done here, I'll head into the shop and either put a fourth coat on or declare victory and wax it.

I did enjoy this. Maybe on future tung oil projects, I'll thin early coats even more.

One of the great joys of retirement is that I have the time and energy to learn something just because I want to. In my working days, it was the same as you. What I learned was being dictated by what I had to do. Now, I'm learning Photoshop for photography, Spanish at the local community college, reading up on Buddhism for an upcoming trip... Life is good.
-- Doug
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samson wrote:

Never heard of that formula...although I've heard of 1/3 varnish, 1/3 turpentine, and 1/3 oil (blo or tung) as a nice wiping finish that builds easily without looking plasticy and is simple to renew.
No matter what you put on it (okay, maybe with the exception of bartop epoxy) pine is going to get dented.
As far as water/heat resistance, I have an oak trivet on which I used plain BLO and it's held up fine to hot pots and spills. I imagine your concoction would work as well.
Chris
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Base mix of 50/50 thinned varnish (any), with enough oil to keep the rag from sticking. Behlen's Rockhard tabletop varnish (phenolic resin) works great, won't yellow or feel like cheap plastic. Urethane is best used for kid's furniture, where looks are second to abuse resistance.
Orange / amber shellac is the prettiest finish for pine. Unwaxed is reputed to stand up well to spills. Soak a rag in straight 3 lb cut and buff in until it starts to stick, very easy.
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samson wrote:

My question would be: "Will it ever dry?"
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