Finish question-glaze or toner rather than a complete strip?

[Frank Boettcher]

As the last step in my kitchen remodel, I'm planning to rework my cabinets.

In my case, the cabinets are of very good quality with veneered laminiated material where it should be and solid birch where it should be. Doors are all RP, drawers solid. Hinge hardware excellent. Cabinets came from the best shop in the area. Every thing is structurally sound.

However, they are showing the wear and tear of twenty years of use. Some nicks, bumps, water stains and touch wear from skin oils, etc. Not that bad, but standing out a little now that rest of the kitchen has new solid surface countertop, new ceramic tile floor and back splash, new paint, etc.

Finish, according to the shop that made them, is walnut stain with NC lacquer over.

Rather than taking them all the way down, I'm thinking about doing a light sanding to break the top coat, then using a walnut glaze or toner, and maybe a burnishing material, to cover spots and blend, then go back with a sprayed pre-cat lacquer, or possibly a water based poly.

comments or relevant experiences?

And I apologize for the absence of political content.

Frank

[Leon]

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message news: [e-mail]...

Frank, I am smack dab in the middle of a kitchen re-do. The kitchen is 27 years old and looking tired also. This customer is actually a good friend and neighbor. As with yours the cabinets are in decent condition other than being old and dated looking. These cabinets have a medium to dark stain on what I would guess as being Poplar face frames. The drawer fronts and doors are the same color but made from Oak. I am totally replacing the doors with Maple doors with Euro hinges, the drawers are being replaced with Baltic Birch ones and I am veneering the cabinet face frames with 3/32" thick Maple veneer, made by me with my Laguna BS and Performax drum sander. I basically turned 2, 1x6x8' S4S Maple boards in to 20, 36" and 10" 24" pieces of veneer. I am covering the cabinet end panels with 1/4" Maple plywood. duple stick carpet tape and brads hold the panels in place. I spent Sunday afternoon making the veneer. Monday I removed the old cabinet doors, moldings and applied the veneer to the face frames on the lower cabinets. Tuesday I applied the veneer to the upper cabinet face frames. Each piece is cut to the exact size of the face frame piece, no router work to trim off the excess. Wednesday I puttied the pinner holes, about 1,000 of them, and sanded the veneer smooth at all the joints and for the varnish. Today I applied the first 2 coats of General finished Arm-R-Seal Satin varnish.

I am very happy so far with the results. I will say the veneer process started out looking like a disaster. I am using TiteBond Trim glue for quick adhesion but applied the glue directly and completely to the back side of the veneer. That was a mistake. The veneer curled as I thought it might. I ended up clamping a 1x4 over the top to flatten it out while the glue dried. That was going to be way too slow. Anyway I also used probably

20 pins to hold that piece in place and that did not work out so good. The solution that worked well was to apply the glue on the outer edge of the face frame piece that was to receive the next piece of veneer along with 20 or so pins. That worked out great, the veneer was not saturated and only has glue on the outer 1/2" or so edge. The neutral putty is a perfect match in color and the pin holes are all but undetectable. The Festool Rotex sander made quick work of making everything flat and even.

Just some food for thought. It is a big job compared to only refinishing but much less work than a total rebuild.

[Lee Michaels]

"Leon" wrote

And since you made your own veneer, you didn't have to worry about sanding through the the veneer.

[nailshooter41]

Leon's idea will no doubt make a better looking job, but it isn't for the casual participant.

You can sand off the finish to the desired look, and make sure you clean out the dents and dings. If you sand enough off of everything nicely, you will probably get away with a toner.

If you sand the old finish off but leave color in the in the profiles and curves, you can color the worn places and and then apply your toner.

I don't believe glazing is what you are looking for as it is usually used to highlight features or to provide a certain "look". (Use Google images to find glazed cabinets and doors).

If I am reading you right, you just want to freshen them up and update the look a bit.

You can make your own toners, and really control the color if you apply them correctly. After you prep and color the way you want to conceal the blemishes and wear with the proper stains, coat the cabinets with sanding sealer/shellac.

Sand it just barely smooth, making sure you don't cut through your coat of sealer. Cut Behlen's Solar Lux about 75% with anhydrous alcohol, spray it out of a from the dollar store as a fine mist and wipe to the desired color. Don't put too much on; you can add as much as you want to deepen the color.

Apply your favorite top coat.

Yes, I have done this for clients. They were tickled to pieces as the just wanted a "spruce up", not an overhaul.

Robert

[Leon]

Absolutely correct. AND I only threw the suggestion out there because IIRC Frank has a Laguna BS capable of cutting the veneers like I did. Because it was "Frank" asking for suggestions I threw out my idea. Had it been some one else I might have not have made the suggestion.

[Swingman]

"Frank Boettcher" wrote

LOL ... just you wait, Bubba! :)

[Frank Boettcher]

And I appreciate the suggestion, however, these cabinets are too far on the good side to veneer. Not actually dated, just have a little wear showing. actually have to look fairly close to find it, but you can bet SWMBO knows where every flaw is.

Robert's suggestion deserves a sample. I have a piece of the same material with the same finish that came out of the den renovation that I can practice various finish schedules on.

And that Laguna, still in storage along with two shapers and various other nice stuff. Have to finish the kitchen, so I can sell the house, so I can build a new smaller house, so I can build a new larger shop..............

Well you get the picture. House is designed, shop is designed, hoping for a slightly improved market in the spring for selling current residence.

Frank

[Leon]

Gotcha, I did not realize that you were wanting to sell the house. I think in that instance that I would even consider a good quality oil based paint. ;~)

[Swingman]

"Frank Boettcher" wrote

Ditto across the board, Frank ... AAMOF, in preparation for our anticipated retirement and move to the lake house in AR in 2009, current plan is to put our home on the market early 2009 (unless soup lines form).

In anticipation of that, we just leased one of the houses our company bought but decided not to build on until the economy settles down.

Ostensible rationale is that is that our youngest daughter, with a lease purchase in place, can move in with use when she comes down to Houston to make her life after college and then take over when we move out. I also need to be in the Houston/Austin for another year or so for business reasons, but can spread my time between here, there, and AR.

But ...The REAL reason: The leased house has a nice size garage.., errr shop, and is only four blocks from our current location! :)

Although we don't plan on moving into the leased house until next year after we put our home up for sale, I've got a kitchen cabinet job in the design stage scheduled in the next few months, and currently being without a shop, I'm actively moving "shop stuff" into the garage.., errr shop as we speak:

you can see, started stacking my hardwood stash that made it through high water, as well as my SCSM for the myriad of modifications needed to make it into a working shop.

The "big iron", still in storage, will probably be moved next week, but I still need to get 220 and a service panel in before I can fire up the TS. Lots of cabinet space, though.

After a couple of months without, it will be nice to have a shop again, no matter how temporary.

Good luck on all your endeavors ... a sure way to keep the spirit up during times of turmoil and uncertainty is to "keep on keepin' on"!

On that note, I'm going back to make another load.

[Lee Michaels]

"Swingman" wrote

Four blocks?? Sounds almost too good to be true. I trust it is above the high water mark.

Looks good for a temporary shop.

Famous last words. I think most of my life has been in "temporary" situations.

And if you decide to spend some extra time there that garage, err.... shop, looks like it can be easily expanded.

[Swingman]

"Lee Michaels" wrote

Since that last post, I (with some 'balancing' help from SWMBO) actually loaded my big shop bench onto the truck, took it to the new "shop", installed it, and I'm back for another cup of coffee, and another load ... that's how close it is. ;)

Since I was going to build there (AAMOF, just finished, and sold in July, a house on the same street a block away), I'm familiar with the area and do know that it didn't flood in Allison in 01. Our old house, that did flood, is only 6 blocks North, but on lower ground.

So far, so good ... but you never know with the subsidence along the Gulf Coast, witness my present shop, that is between these two locations, basically flooding in August.

Hopefully I'll be long gone before then.

Well, another plus is that I'll be able to move the "big iron" immediately out of storage ($200 +/- a month) and they can hopefully stay in this "temporary shop" until I get the REAL shop built in AR ... otherwise I was being faced with moving them twice more, instead of once

In any event, that's the plan .. and we all know what plans do. ( but there's plenty of room for a big crawfish boil and gumbo party, right out the door, if times get tough!)

I hope like hell not ... but that scenario could turn out to be better than countless others I can think of. :)

Sorry, Frank ... didn't mean to hijack your thread!

[Frank Boettcher]

's OK, I'm interested in others going through somewhat the same transition.

Nice temp shop. In good weather and with tolerant neighbors and a mobile base or two, it becomes the size of the drive at least temporarily.

My plan is to build the shop first, with an efficiency over, move into it while I'm in the process of contracting the house, doing myself those things that I consider fun (that list gets shorter as I get older), then when the house is complete the efficiency will be a couple of bedrooms and a bath that will only be H & C when the troops come home for a visit.

Overflow big iron stored in safe place, unlike the place I had some of it stored during Katrina. May have to clean out a few mouse domiciles, fight off a giant tree roach or two, but it's high and dry.

Good luck to you too, as they say the best laid plans......this is my second shot, set back by Katrina, site selection committee has revised the search now looking for that demarcation line where the insurance rates increase at an exponential rate to stay just north of it.

Unfortunately, I'm a sailor and I need to be within striking distance of salt water. Lew probably understands.

Frank