Finally saw Nahmie for first time in 20 years...

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Akshully, the sander most likely costs as much as the rest of his shop equipment combined. I don't really lust after any of Norm's tools - I even have some which I feel are better. The exception is that TimeSaver. Jeezus, but that's one sweet machine; takes up as much room as a car, and costs about the same.

Really? I always pegged you as more of a sheep guy, Keeter.

Gawd, now we know you're a sicko!
--
Jeff Thunder, hater of lawn mowing
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
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<<Akshully, the sander most likely costs as much as the rest of his shop equipment combined. I don't really lust after any of Norm's tools - I even have some which I feel are better. The exception is that TimeSaver. Jeezus, but that's one sweet machine; takes up as much room as a car, and costs about the same. >>
And it is the one tool in the shop which they have specifically mentioned is a loaner.
Lee
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To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"



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Jeffrey Thunder wrote:

I tried that. The neighbors look at you funny when you're riding a sheep.

Luuuuke, feel the force of the dark side.
UA100
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That's cuz you picked the ugly one.

Mowing sucks; that's why Al Gore invented asphalt.
OBWW: does painting MDF trim count as woodworking? <sigh>
--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
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It depends. Did you mitre the corners? ;-) SH
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On 4 Jan 2005 18:29:48 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@myoffice.math.niu.edu (Jeffrey Thunder) calmly ranted:

Oh, yeah? Ask Joni "Paved Parking Lot" Mitchell about that.

You should know better, Jeffwy.
- In nature's infinite book of secrecy a little I can read. -Shakespeare ------ http://diversify.com Website Application & Database Development
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Being relatively new to woodworking, 3 years now officially, I would have to pay homage to Norm. He did inspire me to start woodworking. Until then I was putting wood together with no clue. Or glue. ;-)
He showed me the way. I took it from there. I thank Norm.
I respectfully somewhat disagree with you on your above statement for some of his creations. Some of them *are* indeed woodworking. Some are more along the manufacturing lines. But you gotta admit, he has some cool gadgets!
I think the basis of his show is to familiarize the audience with what kind of techniques and machinary are out there. That's my take anyway. I like some of the stuff he makes and some I don't. Not being the real patient type, I prefer simple stuff.
Machine over hand tools? Whenever the opportunity presents itself. But hey, that's just my style. There are many others and to each there own. SH
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This craftsman vs. artiste-type thread breaks out every so often, and it will never go away. A hundred years from now it'll be laser-guided saws vs. robot-control machines that accept a log at one end and spew out a cabriole leg from the other. The same arg...er, discussion occurs in amateur astronomy today, involving the latest computer-aligned and guided telescopes vs. manual operation and star-hopping to find things. My SIL paid more than $3,000 for a sewing machine and takes home metal from the state fair every year. She doesn't own a thimble. I gotta think that other hobbies are the same--turn-it-on-and-listen in ham radio vs. build-it yourself, gentleman racers vs grease monkeys, etc. To me, a tool is a tool, whether it's tailed or not. The craftsmanship is all in the using. YMMV, and probably does.
Bob
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I think it comes down to not mattering how something is made as long as it's useful, gets compliments from the people we know and costs less than buying one. (assuming that one works for free when woodworking)
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wrote in message news:8wgCd.168473

Aha! J.S. Mills' Utilitarianism rears its head again! Where's our Court Philosopher? Watson! You're needed here.
Bob
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Bob Schmall wrote:

Since this whole thread seems to have turned the wrath of so many against me, I thought I would expand on that last point a bit. I don't work in manufacturing, but I've spent more than my fair share of time in furniture factories. They have big machines, lots of gadgets, and a different station for everything, but the end result is soulless and uninspired at best. That's exactly the impression I got watching Nahmie's show. It was like watching one of the factory guys showing me how they make stacks of identical futons. Sure, it's wood. Sure, the parts fit together. Where's the soul? The spirit of the piece? The imagination?
I guess I'm an artiste type, as you surmise, which is hardly surprising considering my other hobbies include photography, painting (on canvas), drawing, ornamental gardening and music. To each his own. Anybody who enjoys Nahmie is more than welcome to watch and emulate him all day long. You can have as many routahs and oscillating reciprocating double articulated hoosalflootchies as you have outlets and money for for all I care. For my own part, I will keep doing what I'm doing, and I will make a point just to leave the stupid idiot light off for another 20 years.
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Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan < snipped-for-privacy@users.sourceforge.net>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
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That's exactly the impression I got watching Nahmie's show. It was

Wow! If you're trying to breathe life (anemos) into a FUGLY Marks lamp, what makes you think that a wide-belt sander has no soul (anima)?
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On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:45:57 -0500, Silvan
(The following is freely snipped)

I've always enjoyed watching Norm.
One of the reasons is that his growth and development has paralleled my own.
Norm started out as a carpenter and then gravitated towards doing the fussier stuff. He was already pretty good at trim work when I first started watching him - back in the days of Bob.
The first natural step away from doing rough and finish carpentry is towards built-ins. You can spend a whole career on built-in work, learning more about design and construction as you go.
There is a crossover phase between building built-ins like a carpenter and starting to build them more like a furniture maker. Your design sense gets better, particularly if you are fortunate enough to work with good designers and architects. Your work eventually becomes less carpenterish.
Some fellas, and I believe Norm to be one of them, keep on following this path until it leads them to freestanding work, or what might properly be called furniture.
When I started out as a carpenter, which was pretty much the same time as Norm did, carpenters still made a lot of built-in work. The kitchens were often done onsite and things like bookcases, fireplace surrounds, wainscot and window seats were done there too. The joinery was what you could do with the tools available to you in the field. You wanted more tools so that you could rip a nicer line than you could with the circular saw, make a nicer door than a slab and batten, cobble up a better drawer than a butted glue and nail.
Most of the guys that I have known, who were any good at carpentry, wanted those tools so that they could do nicer work in an efficient enough fashion to satisfy themselves and the requirements of the marketplace. You wanted to follow your star but you had to deal with that old Nemesis - The Marketplace.
Even at the level of built-ins there is a bit of snobbery involved. The guys who grew up in the shop look down on the converted carpenters, even though you could probably follow their lineage back to a carpenter somewheres in the woodpile.
Breaking into freestanding work is another major leap. On a skill level, you are going to have to make your own mistakes and learn from them the best you can. On the business level - that is a tough market, with many niche markets, where the margins are tight and the money is dumbed down by the number of people who are willing to do it on a subsistence level - there's your artist, used to living in a culture that does not reward the artist, so much as the sellers and collectors of art. Most places that show and sell mark up one hundred percent, getting more than you did for creating the piece.
I'll bet Norm feels fortunate to have found a path that lets him grow and explore. I've not seen many things that he has designed himself - but he's still a young fella and that may come along.
Certainly he has to show the wares of his Patron, and this is no different from those who have created under the banner of patrons of the arts since time out of mind. Our patrons these days are corporate and Delta is the current Medici of American WoodDorking - Gosh Bless Them.
Norm is slowly knocking the carpenter out of himself. It's fun to watch him do it.
Most of the guys who bitch about Norm here on the Wreck aren't worthy to carry the man's tools.
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1 (webpage)
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<snip>

<snip to save space>
Well said Tom - I couldn't agree more.
Lou
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thanks, Tom, excellent post...as a carpenter lurching and stumbling down that same path I can relate, especially to the part of wanting whatever tool/skill/knowledge will produce a better result in (hopefully)less time and with more fun...
david
Tom Watson wrote:

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Right on, Tom.
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wrote:

To carry Norm's tools you'd have to be as strong as two oxen.
--RC
"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells 'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets fly with a club. -- John W. Cambell Jr.
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At least you used the plural.
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One of Jim Tolpin's books mentions that the difference between cabinets and furniture is that a cabinet is attatched to a wall, and furniture is not. That means the joints are stressed differently, and have to be designed differently.
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