Finally saw Nahmie for first time in 20 years...

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On Sat, 01 Jan 2005 14:45:57 -0500, Silvan

I think he's gotten better about this. Didn't see the industrial pocket hole machine much last season. The wide belt sander mostly just lurks in the background mocking us quietly to itself.

He carved a shell in his lowboy by hand last season. He did buy the cabriole legs though.

If you can't find anything of value watching someone else work even if their approach is wildly different than yours then you aren't much of a woodworker.
-Leuf
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Amen.
I'm more interested in methods I _don't_ use than the ones I do. Pretty well up on them already.
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Right on!
Barry
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Leuf wrote:

I'll agree with you to a point but the format of the show is me watching someone else build something week after week.
Now, if they want to do a kick ass show it would be set up as a magazine format where the host wooddorker would go about teaching techniques. First five-ten minutes shows how to make a table saw sled, next five minutes shows how to properly tune a (insert hand tool/machine/power tool here) and finishes off this week's show with maybe a how to on cutting dovetails.
Hell, the whole half an hour could be spent with the different methods for cutting dovetails.
There are enough subjects to last a couple/few seasons and the video tape sales would be awesome.
Oh yeah, I want to host it in case anyone of importance is watching from the side lines.
UA100
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Nah, then we'd all end up as tool collectors with well-prepared shops and SWMBO wondering when in H*LL we're going to get those new shelves she wanted for the bedroom done....
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George wrote:

At a party I once asked a friend, "Have you met my first wife Susan". She (Susan) was not amused.
UA100
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Hah! Sounds like one of those people who like to poke the animal with the big teeth just to see what type of reaction they get.
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wrote:

One of the scheduled programs for the upcoming season is "Lathe 101" where he is supposedly just going to demonstrate tools and technique and the website says they're going to do more of this sort of program in the future. I think Norm has finally filled up his house with furniture after 16 years and now he can get around to this sort of stuff.
What I'd like to see is some of the work that goes into the prototype. First he builds the prototype and works out all the kinks. Building it a second time is then easy. But it's precisely the kink-working- out process that is the most valuable to see. Random tangent: it must drive him crazy to set up the machines and then only cut the parts for the prototype knowing full well he's gotta make another one in the near future.
One of my favorite Norm moments was at one point he goes back to the prototype, sets his bevel gage on it and then uses that to set up the machine. Right. So Norm, when would be a good time for me to drop by your house with my bevel gage so I can build it too?
-Leuf
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<<What I'd like to see is some of the work that goes into the prototype. First he builds the prototype and works out all the kinks. Building it a second time is then easy. But it's precisely the kink-working- out process that is the most valuable to see. Random tangent: it must drive him crazy to set up the machines and then only cut the parts for the prototype knowing full well he's gotta make another one in the near future.>>
I don't know if there's any way they could turn it into engrossing television but, as a hobbyist with fairly limited experience, what I'd really like to see is a program or series of programs which focus on setting up those machines. By the time we get to see Norm cut a rabbet, the dado set is already mounted in the table saw and the sacrificial fence attached, or the router bit is ready and waiting in the router table, set to the proper height and depth. I'd like to see him install a set of jointer knives and set the outfeed table to the proper height, or change the blades in his planer and then run some wood through them.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"



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<snip> Hi Lee,
As Seinfeld has already said so well....

That's a show...

That's another...

Another...
Another... (maybe 2 shows)

and another...

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<snip>

Can you say "production assistants"?
You have to be able to leverage the franchise.
Patriarch
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Sounds rather like David Marks' work this season. As a friend of mine, with College of the Redwoods credentials, called him, "Norm on Steroids".
And there was cleary respect in his tone.
I'll say one other thing about Norm: When I periodically get the power tool-buying lust, my wife has a pretty clear idea what the power tool is supposed to do, at least these days.
Three years ago, she regularly confused a Sawzall with a Unisaw, never having seen either of them.
Patriarch, trying to repent...
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<snip>

My adult son just turns off the TV when I 'correct' Norm on the TiVo reruns.
We had a saying, couple of decades ago, in the personal computer business:
"Ignorance to Arrogance in 90 days."
Still applies, I guess.
Patriarch, who still at least scans for new-to-him NYW material...
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Silvan wrote:

Ah,
the
stile
Of course he did, that's half the fun of the show. If you don't like it, don't watch it. Have you been living in a hole for 20 years as well to understand what his show is about? He's talked about on here a fair amount.
I gotta believe people that beat up on him for using so many different advanced power tools are the same people that beat up on atheletes for being successful and businessmen for making money. Gotta be a jealously thing.
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I figure it's a logistic thing. If he's going to get the project built within the time period of the show, then he's necessarily going to need to take shortcuts that the average person can't ~ one of them being all those power tools. I watch the show to get ideas for things to build. I wouldn't use all the methods he uses even if I had all those tools. I'd follow the construction in general and make improvements or changes to suit myself.
If Norm built all those project without the shortcuts and took the time to build like most of us here, each project would run at least two or three shows. In a situation like that, I wouldn't watch the show near as much.
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wrote:

This is TV, he can take 5 years to build a project and they can still fit it into a half hour. He uses the power tools because he's given all of them for free.

But David Marks can manage to make much more complicated projects using largely hand tools and still does them in one show. And he takes weeks to actually make anything.
Ah, the power of television editting.
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I haven't yet seen David Marks do a TV show. Don't know of any stations, (cable TV stations anyway) that are available with Marks up here in Canada. Next time I move, I'm damn sure going to be looking for an apartment that has a view of the southwest so I can get satellite.
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<<But David Marks can manage to make much more complicated projects using largely hand tools and still does them in one show. And he takes weeks to actually make anything.>>
For a long time all I knew about David Marks was what I read here. I was under the impression that when it came to neanders, DJM was second only to Roy Underhill. Then my cable system added DIY network to its On-Demand service. I finally got to watch one or two of Marks' shows and was amazed to see him using some power tools Norm could only dream about. (For example, I've never seen Norm make use of a multi-router like Marks uses.) Unfortunately, I have only had the chance to see a few Marks episodes so I don't know if uses mortice & loose tenon joinery for every project or just happened to use the same method for the ones I caught. From the shows I have seen, Marks also seems to presume that the viewer has a certain level of woodworking knowledge, whereas Norm seems to explain everything as if even the basics are new to most of the audience. Now don't get me wrong. I am a huge admirer of David Marks and his craftsmanship. I think even Norm himself would concede that David is the more accomplished woodworker (although I might opt for Norm to build me a house). However, the notion that David is all about spokeshaves and rasps and Norm would be helpless if there had never been a Mr. Porter and a Mr. Cable is an erroneous one.
Lee
--
To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"



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On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 17:39:51 -0500, "Lee Gordon"

Nobody ever said otherwise. In fact, people have talked a lot about his multi-router and his aircraft carrier jointer.
I think the point here is that Marks uses power tools when it's necessary and he often shows alternatives to using them. Norm uses power tools because they're there and if they weren't there, Norm really wouldn't know what to do with himself.
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But they are there - I don't see a reason to use handtools simply for the sake of saying "Look at me, I use hand tools". I'm in this hobby because I like to build things. The pioneers would have used a homelight if they'd have had them and the Shakers built one of the first machines available doing tongue and groove assembly without having to do it all by hand. They were also the first to use steam power for lathes and the inventors of the round saw blade.
If you want to use hand tools because your hobby is old world craftsmanship, fine. I simply don't understand the need to bash those that prefer to use more efficiency to save time. If it took me eight months to build a table, I'd find a different hobby. Pocket hole jigs, tablesaws, jointers and bandsaws were made to be used.
Don
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