Festool and IWF

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Festool had a booth at the show and I was prepared to shell out the bucks for a domino had they offered a show discount.
When I ask the guy running the booth about show discounts, his exact words were "You have to be kidding, I pay retail"
basilisk
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If you were the owner/inventor and had a product that performed a particular function, a product that people wanted and were already buying, would you offer a discount? Would you need to offer a discount.
I can see your reasoning ~ getting additional customers = greater profits. But, Festool's whole line of products is premised on doing functions that most other products can do, but doing it better, cleaner and faster. And unfortunately, offering those products at a higher price point.
Unfortunately for the lay person, there's Festool stock owners somewhere laughing all the way to the bank.
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Dave wrote:

From what I was able to discern, Festool is a family owned business. I think humor is a different thing in Germany.
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On Sat, 25 Aug 2012 23:47:38 -0400, Dave wrote:

I wasn't disappointed that they didn't have show discounts, but you never know until you ask, and if there had been a 10% discount I would have no longer been in control of my wallet.
A lot of companies do show discounts, Keller dovetail jigs were discounted 15% at the show.
By the way the Keller jigs are a hefty well made product that seems to work flawlessly in trained hands.
basilisk
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You're right of course, show discounts or the possibility of them is one of the biggest drawing cards for getting people to these shows. Festool while common at most/many woodworking shows these days, appears to operate on a different sales track.
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On 8/25/2012 11:47 PM, Dave wrote:

That's a part of it.
And unfortunately, offering those products at a higher price point.
That's the other part, and the reason you won't see Festering Tools on sale, and also why they are rarely used by professionals. They market there tools to rich oil men that like to brag about how much more their tool cost than your tool, and to rich bankers that just want the best vacuum cleaner made, and dollars counts, particularly at rich cocktail parties where the other rich guys get to talking (bragging) about tools and Bentleys, whilst sucking on a bottle of Montrachet 1978 from Domaine de la Romane-Conti.
In other words, part of the shtick is pricing from hell. Sort of like joining a country club that cost $50g's a year, plus $300 for a round of golf, and a 1.50 beer costs $9.

There is a niche for every market, and Festools niche is prices from hell, not prices from Home Depot.
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You'll find differences of opinion. Some professionals relish the tools. But I can see that companies hiring half-baked workers would prefer to have them abuse cheap tools.
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On 8/27/2012 9:00 AM, Han wrote:

Well, in my opinion is the reason Festool never bends on price is because they are marketing to those that get off paying top dollar for their tools. What is your opinion on why they don't go on sale?
Some professionals relish the tools.
Some professionals drive Porsche's to work, and only a small number of those own Festools. I would relish a festool, but would be almost ashamed to tell most what it cost. The prices border, no, are, ridiculous.

That's not been my experience. First, the trades frown on half baked workers, a half baked worker is more of a Government position, not the skilled trades.
Cheap tools seldom make it into skilled trades. But, they don't often blow wads of money for the heck of it. You will find more Fords than you will Bentleys at the construction site. Have you ever been near a construction site?
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But they do go on sale such as preintro, reconditioned, combo. Take your pick. But, no they don't have MSRP, they set a price. In a way, that measn I will choose the place with the best service or inventory.

Have you ever used a Festool tool? I am a rank amateur, but really like the Festools I have.

You don't remember the Ridgid lawsuit by the guy who was a cardcarrying nincompoop, didm't know how to work a simple table saw for ripping a piece of wood? The suit that made the SawStop? I bet there are plenty of the kind of outfit that employed this guy ...

My home was a construction site when we remodeled. I'm sure the GC didn't really like we kept living in it while the work was going on.
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When it comes or opions, or quality of work, one would do well to NEVER put undue trust in any tradesman met in a bar. ;)

You can bet he did not ... DAMHIKT. LOL
My last two, of three, remodels in the last twelve months also had special medical needs of the inplace inmates to take into account. Try that for a bit of extra stress in a business already stressful for the trustworthy. :)
As far as Festool goes ... My Festool devices have consistenntly made me more money than any other tool I've ever owned. I pity those ignorant of the benefit/price ratio, for they know not of what they speak.
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If I were a professional Festool makes sense, especially in the remodeling, less mess to clean up saves time and that keeps the client usually.
Mark
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On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 21:44:40 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

I did not say I would hire a contractor based upon his tools. But the if it was my profession Festools dust collection is a advantage in saving time in cleaning up and therefore saves time. Time is money after all.
Mark
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On 8/27/2012 3:53 PM, Jack wrote:

They do actually go on sale and you can get a reduced price most any day when buying a combination. Why do they not go on sale often, they want to protect their retailers. If every one has to sell for the same price, all one retailer can offer over the next retailer is better service. That is a win situation for the buyer that has the money and wants the quality and service. Are the tools expensive, absolutely. Are they over priced, not if your work requires a better brand tool to give the results you are wanting. For the majority of wood hackers Festool is way out of line. Think of a drivers ed student thinking he needs a Indy car for his first car.

I suppose that all has to do with the neighborhood you live in and the quality of work you produce. Would you be ashamed to tell some one in an apartment how much you paid for your home?
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On 8/27/2012 7:56 PM, Leon wrote:

Depends far more on prices that other quality tools are that will do the job.

Bullshit. The quality of ones work in no way, shape or form depends on whether you use a shop vac or festool, a Milwaukee or festool, or even a Ryobi or a festool. You can sell that to guys that have their shop in their living room, but not to me.
Would you be ashamed to tell some one in an apartment how much you paid for your home?
If I paid 2x or more than my home is worth, yes.
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On 8/28/2012 9:07 AM, Jack wrote:

I guess that because you do not use Festool you really do not know any better. We will agree to disagree.

with a shop vac specifically it may not matter with with your customers. The last kitchen reface job I worked on was with my customer taking a nap in the bedroom 15' away, while I was going through 3 grits of sand paper. No dust and quiet enough for him to take a nap. And then I probably got paid more for the job so that my customer did not have to put up with a screaming vac. so again, the right tools in the right hands are worth the extra cost. It is all relative.

Well then there you go.
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On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 13:38:34 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

Have you listened to a Festool dust collector? In no way shape or form can you compare it's quietness to any regular shrieking shop vac. Depending on the speed that one is set, it's a virtual hum. Although, I don't own a Festool sander, I've listened to and used one before. All it does is add another dimension to that virtual hum.
Mike, you need to get your butt over to a Festool dealer's demo day and find out for yourself. Until then all you denials and refusal to agree count for nada. And similarly, until then you just don't have any basis to disagree with what's been said to you about Festool.
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On 8/28/2012 12:46 PM, Dave wrote:

LOL, Better yet take home a sander and vac. You have 30 days to see if it suits you.
A word of warning, learn to use the VS on the vac when sanding. Too strong and the sander wants to hop. Dial it up just high enough so that the sander glides along the surface and picks up the dust.
Also because the sander/vac combination work so well together do not leave the paper on too long. The paper will wear out long before it has any visual signs of wear. Still the paper lasts much longer than that on a non collection sander. I learned to feel the paper surface and compare it to a new piece.
In most cases you will not hear the vac when it is running and attached to an operating power tool, power drills included.
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Nah! I think that would be too big of an emotional step for him. He needs to start off easy.
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On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 15:57:04 -0400, "Mike Marlow"

Have a look in the mirror Mike. We keep saying the same things to you and you keep replying with the same answers. There is no reading comprehension problem, it's time for you to stop trying to make some sense of what we're saying and go do. Or do not. There is no try.
There, I paraphrased Yoda a bit. Do or do not. Your choice. You're emulating Bill with all your questions. (Sorry Bill). They've been answered, maybe not to your ultimate satisfaction, but answered nevertheless.
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Dave wrote:

Gosh, thanks for dragging me into this (LOL)! I thought I was getting better...
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