Festool

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Works great with the Kreg pocket hole jig also.
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Yup, that's when the auto-start really shines.
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Ron,
If the 2-4X the cost of a good quality tool wasn't enough for you, here's a heads up on the upcoming Festool price increase. This, according to a recent message from McFeely's.
http://www.mcfeelys.com/info/festool-alert.htm
You may want to look at some of the closeout items that appear at times when new products are introduced. I picked up a PS-2 jigsaw that way and am very pleased with it. Very smooth cuts and easy to use.
Peter.

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My point, if I have one, is once you go beyond some price for a given thing you are no longer paying for an increase in quality. As a carpenter I've used Bosch, Makita, DeWalt, Ryobi, Rigid, Craftsman, Porter Cable and others. Some are better than others and in general the better once cost some more. But from what I've seen there is not enough improvement in Festool to justify costing so much more than what else is out there. That is why I asked for opinions from those who have used them.
ron
Peter Bogiatzidis wrote:

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Well the Festool line of tools are not what I could consider "carpenter tools". Carpenters generally don't require the precision unless they are getting into built in cabinets. With the Festool line one could get closer to furniture grade wood working and maybe with out the need or a TS or RAS. The way you are speaking it seems that you have not actually used a Festool tool. For the most part Festool is not so much the single tool as much as it is a system that permits sawing, sanding, or routing inside someone's home. In addition to the perceived limited increase in quality that you mention the tools tend to out perform as well.
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Leon wrote:

I thought I said I had not used them. And I have done built in cabinets and worked on million dollar houses. In my experience a top quality blade and good straight edge makes more difference than brand of tool if there is a minimum level of quality. Bosch, Rigid, Makita, Porter Cable and DeWalt generally meet that minimum quality. Older Craftsman do as well. The rest is the skill of the user and I don't see any improvement short of a panel saw that will compensate for that.
I'm not trying to run down Festool even if it may seem that way, I'm just trying to understand the expense of the tool, is there that much bang for the buck?
ron
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Snip

You have received many answers to question about bang for you buck. Those of us that own the tool feel that the price is justified. You apparently are still having a hard time understanding the value through questions and answers. I'll suggest once again that you put your hands on one an try it out. There is a 30 money back guarantee so the risk is minimal. Go to your local dealer for a hands on demonstration.
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The quality increase, relative to dollars spent, seems to be exponential. Is a Festool worth the money? Absolutely. It all has to do with what a tool is worth to you. If you have the damn thing in your hands all day, and you want consistent and reliable results, what is an extra couple of hundred dollars over the life-time of the tool?
Having said that (Strunk & White roll over in their graves every time somebody say that, btw) I don't believe that ALL Festool tools are worth their premium. The Bosch jigsaw comes to mind, so do misc. cordless drills/drivers. Nice, but too rich for my blood. Plunge saws and sanders, and even that # 2000 router, well, there simply isn't anything that compares.
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You seem to be missing the obvious point of what makes Festool different. A Bosch, DeWalt, Porter Cable, Makita, Milwaukee, Hitachi, Skil, Sears, Black&Decker, etc. circular saw all look alike and act alike. They are all interchangeable. Spray paint them all the same color and you cannot tell one from the other. If you put the Festool circular saw next to the ones above, and it is different. It looks different. Its used differently. It handles differently. Its still callled a circular saw but that is about its only thing in common with the above list of saws. It comes with a guide and is built to use that guide. It comes ready for dust collection. It has soft start motor. It has electronics that keep the rpm constant. It has various speed levels for different blades and material being cut. It has a pluge mechanism to make blind cuts. None of the saws in the list above have these features. Some of the other Festool tools have similar amounts of difference from their common namesake tools from the manufacturers you listed. Some Festool are very similar to the general tools and have very little feature differences. The saws and Domino are probably the most different tools.
Festool has dealers all over the US. You'll have to try one to know if its worth it.

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snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

Just thought I'd point out that Makita and DeWalt now have plunge saws with guide rails. However, they're priced close to Festool.
Chris
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wrote:

Add PC to the list but like the other 2 it is not yet available to all. IIRC Europe have them but they are not yet available in the US.
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" snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com" wrote:
SNIP

Now we are getting to the nuts and bolts. This is what I was looking for.
ron
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wrote:

Wee geez r payne. Be more specific. Most any tool can be had that is ready with dust collection, soft start, ESC and or variable speed.
Might I add the stunning black color highlighted by the green knobs and switches. ;~)
Just kidding. Really, these tools don't leave any features out that I can think of. If there is a particular tool that you want to know about it may be easier to answer your questions. Most every Festool has 1 or more unique features that stand out from the competition.
OK, now I am ordering you to take a couple of hours off and look at the array of tools that you dealer will have. It is eye candy galore and you will be saying geeeee, those are cool features. ;~)
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Leon wrote:

There is one dealer in town, all other dealers would take most of a day to drive and visit. I was there for a bit just before i started this thread, but after standing in front of the display and handling the tools for maybe 20 minutes all I could say was "they have some nice features but I don't see twice the cost". And during all that time no one came over to answer any questions I may have or offer a demo. From what has been posted there may be some new innovations and new innovations always cost more. So I think I'll wait a couple of years and see what happens in the market. Although I sounds like what I would try to design if I was to build one.
ron
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r payne wrote:

It's interesting isn't it? When I first saw the Festools advertised, I thought, oh how pretty and didn't give them a second thought. I wasn't even aware of the price differential until a few guys in here started talking about them.
Other than price, I never heard a contrary word about any Festool that was under discussion. Now, they seem to be well on their way to establishing industry standards at the high-end, replacing what most people had faith in for years: DeWalt and PC.
I really don't have the cash to drop down on even one of these beauties and I don't think my skill level warrants one, but what impresses me the most is the reviews that have been on the Wreck by some craftsmen that are very hard to please; Swing, Leon, charlieb, etc. That brand is now fixed in my mind as something to attain to
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On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 04:18:16 +0000, r payne wrote:

That bothers me. I hope it wasn't a Woodcraft store. I can assure you that wouldn't happen in the Woodcraft where I work. We've got some employees who are so sold on Festool that they get positively gleeful at the opportunity to show them off :-).
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

No it wasn't Woodcraft. I wish there was a Woodcraft store close enought to go to. This one is a local store owned by a fellow I've had some other dealings with and even though it is the closest thing to a woodworking tool store less than an hours drive, it wouldn't bother me if it was gone.
ron
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LOL, I have a brand new Woodcraft store near me that has the full array of Festool equipment. Every time I mention Festool they direct me to the display and start showing me the Domino. I have to remind them that I have had a Domino longer than their store has been existence. And then they kinda frown.
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r payne wrote: ...

Amazing what some judicious upscale pretentiousness can do in a marketing campaign isn't it??? :)
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That really isn't true with most Festool items.
Even though I think Systainers are overpriced, every Festool _tool_ I've tried really has been far above the competition. The guys who use them all day long for a living, and were nice enough to let me, a part timer try them, also learned of them on job sites where someone let them try them. There is a 30 day, no questions asked satisfaction guarantee on Festool products.
In the flying community, Bose communication headsets often draw the same comments from folks who haven't used them. Hype! Pretentious! A $1000 headset? etc... Bose also offers a 30 day guarantee. While most folks with a musical ear will agree that Bose stereo equipment is typically over-hyped and overpriced, I don't know of a pilot who's ever returned a Bose aviation headset after actually flying with it for the 30 day trial. I can say the same for Festool.
Next time you need a tool, try Festool. On the other hand, use any other brand of tool for 30 days, as you normally would, and try to return it. <G>
The good news is that markets aren't static. Festool will seriously change the handheld power tool world, just as the cordless drill, the biscuit joiner, and the nail gun did. Mark my words!
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