Fastening to metal studs

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"Swingman" wrote:

Guys, give me a large enough cleat and a notched trowel to apply the adhesive, and the ONLY purpose of the fasteners is to hold the cleat snug while the adhesive cures.
After the adhesive cures, remove the fasteners and plug the holes if you like.
There purpose has been served.
BTW, SFWIW, major difference between Toggle and Molly bolts in my part of the country.
Lew
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"Lew Hodgett" wrote

That I may well have to stand corrected is a distinct possibility, due to my coonass upbringing where the translation doesn't always coincide with the Anglais.
The ones I'm talking about are the ones with the "wings on springs" that pop out after being poked through a pre-drilled hole. They are by far the strongest "wall anchors".
Reflecting on it, they are more "toggle" like in their description, so Boudreau probably don't know what da hell he talking about, him.
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"Swingman", the Registered CoonAss, wrote:

Those are "toggle bolts".
I try to avoid them at all costs.
They require a large clearance hole to install, and are a single use item.
"Molly Bolts" have a stamped steel cage around the self contained screw that expands and grabs the back side of the drywall when snugged up.
Lighter duty than toggle bolts but very useful for hanging full length draw drapes for example, and they are reusuable.
Lew
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I should have elaborated a bit...
The wall is garden variety drywall. The mantle itself is 8" deep and about 4" thick. It's done with a torsion box, so it's not solid cherry, but it sure ain't balsa wood. It's the cantilever force I'm concerned about. That's a lot of weight hanging as far as 8" out from the wall, with only 4" of surface area against it. I'm not sure that adhesive would be much of an aid in this case. The cleat itself is Lee Valley's aluminium Z-clips (http://www.leevalley.com/hardware/page.aspx?c=1&cat=3,41306,41308&pA869), two sections of 2' each. It's not very wide, but I reckon I could drill pairs of holes instead of singles in each location, but maybe not #14.
Bob
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I suppose it is a bit late for this idea, but I would have approached it a little differently. I would have built a torsion box with a tapered (45-degree) removable front and screwed the back part of the box directly (and flush) into the studs, with a long screwdriver, and then re-inserted the front 'panel'.... even before applying the finish....maybe. Those cleats are going to keep your box away from the wall, aren't they? Or are you letting them in?
(I'm not trying to belabour a point here, but I do run into these situations, so I'm keeping an eye on this thread.)
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"giga" wrote:

I'd forget the Lee Valley stuff and build an exposed cleat at least 8" high with a reverse 45 on top which then gets glued to the dry wall.
Using a large cleat will spread the load.
Probably require some time back on the drawing board, but worth it.
Lew
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I would have loved to have done that, and was going to to begin with, but they decided they really didn't want the mantle to be thicker than 4", and swore up and down they would never put anything heavy on it. They were also sure the studs were wood, until I insisted they verify with the builder.
Oh well, maybe I'll suggest they hang it from the cathedral ceiling with very long wires....
Bob
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If you use the French cleat(s) with as many screws into the studs as you can get with self tapping screws, and also fastened to the sheetrock with "toggle bolts" in between the metal studs, AND, if possible, some construction adhesive to bond the back of the mantel to the drywall, you should be in pretty good shape.
Even without the construction adhesive, and providing all your screws prove to have a solid hold, my estimation from your description thus far is that you'll be just fine.
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Will the client buy into the idea of the cleat being an architectural item that serves as background for the mantle since it would be larger than the mantle?
Lew
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Well, that's exactly what I was thinking, and I think they would. A nice, matching cleat visible behind and below the mantle itself could actually look OK and be a pretty good solution. The back of the thing is recessed 1/4" to accommodate the Z-clips, as is the back edge of the bottom, but I could fairly easily build up the back edges of the top and sides by another 1/2" to shroud the cleat, maybe in walnut or some other accent wood.
This can definitely be saved...I think...
Bob
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Have fun <G>
Lew
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I built a kitchen table, per request of a dear client of mine, which protruded 8 feet from the wall of her kitchen, no support, and 28" wide. It became a torsion box, Baltic birch and WEST epoxy. The anchor inside the wall was a simple doubling up of baltic birch. *I* figured, that if that stuff was good enough for Mosquito bomber, it was okay for my application.
When *I* sat on the end of that table with my ample weight, the downward deflection was somewhere between 3/8 and 1/2 inches. It was only 3" thick.
I luuuuuv torsion boxes.
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"Robatoy" wrote:

Moment of Inertia (I) = (B)(H^3)/12 + 1/2(A)(D^2)
Moment of Inertia is your friend and easy to increase with a torison box.
Lew
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I used 1/2" BB all around, but I could have used 1/8" for the skins.
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"Robatoy" wrote:

There is a reason they're called "door skins".
If you can read a newspaper thru them, they are probably thick enough<G>.
Lew
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wrote:

Well, as an update for them what's interested, I'm going to attach a wide cleat to the wall, glued, screwed, toggled, etc and hang the mantle on that. The twist is that the visible edges of the cleat will be bevelled, and the cleat will be painted same colour as the wall. That way, rather than looking like a piece of wood fastened to the wall, it will look more like wall feature. It will aslo be much easier to hide the bolt and screw heads, as they will be countersunk, filled, and painted.
Bob
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wrote:

Sounds like a reasonable solution to me.
-- "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
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See? A VERY solid warning from one of our contributors. THIS is what makes the Wreck great. In real life contractor work-----> always assume the worst.
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