Fastener for 5/8 MDF baseboard

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Chris Melanson wrote:

Oh no. As a matter of fact I stated this in my sig line.

By the way, in the lower 48, at least in the shops I have been associated with, there is no greater honor than to be called a "good mechanic". It has nothing to do with where you demonstrate your skill, just that you do and can demonstrate them.
UA100
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Well that is some thing I did not know I guess we both have learned someting today thank you.
CHRIS

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Does your company have a website?
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Not at this time but I have been thinking about having one developed. I generally work with a group of large contractors and interior designers and have not found a need to have a web site to generate business. I do not do any residential work just commercial and food service work. If you know of any good web site designers please forward there URL.
CHRIS
wrote:

are
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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 16:23:23 GMT, "Chris Melanson"

I liked being a cabinetmaker and I tried to be a good one.
I liked being a carpenter and I tried to be a good one.
I've worked in a few environments where I was exposed to good craftsmen of both types.
But I've met framing carpenters who knew more plane geometry, in an applied sense, than any architect or designer, or cabinetmaker, that I've ever met.
I've met pattern makers who made my balls sweat, with watching how precisely they could do their work.
I've met model makers who made parts that were so small that I could barely see them, let alone make them. (they be like nanocarpenters).
Hell, I've seen concrete form carpenters, using old-fashioned whalers and ties, that knew exactly how to place their sticks so that dams could be monopoured.
I was a bench man for a while - and I was a machine man for a while - and I was a cabinetmaker for a while - but I never thought that having any of those specific tasks entitled me to look up or down my nose at anyone.
I once worked with a journeyman who had gone through the cabinetmaker's apprentice system in Germany, supposed to be one of the most difficult trade paths to go through.
He knew a lot and he had good hands - but he was lazy - and that kept him from being "a good mechanic" - and if you are not a good mechanic - everything else is secondary.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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Tom I agree that in each trade you will fine some people that excel in there respective fields and that are capable of carrying there skills into other fields.
I am not trying to look down my nose at any trade. I actually have great respect for qualified trades men in any trade.
What I did try and say was that the accuracy and consistency of a carpenter trying to do a cabinetmaker's (mechanic in the states) job is nine out of ten times not there. (It seems what you call a cabinetmaker in the states is what is referred to a benchman here. In Canada a mechanic is generally referred to as some one that works on cars)
Carpenters from what I have seen are typically used to using some sort of mechanical fastener (IE nails, brads or screws) While cabinetmakers use joinery (IE mortise and tennon, dove tails, spline joints) as a means of joining parts.
I would like to see some one take 5 carpenters and 5 cabinetmakers and have each group do a carpentry job and then a piece of furniture.
I bet that each trades man would be faster at there respective trade than the other. But if you looked at the overall accuracy and consistency of the two jobs from the two trades you probably find that the cabinetmakers would excel beyond the carpenters in this particular area.
I should state that in the millwork trade it is commonly accepted to use hidden mechanical fasteners for reasons of production speed. Before someone jumps down my through about that.
CHRIS
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I picked up a book on Japanese Joinery in my local public library (Amazon.com product link shortened) />/ and these home framing joints are absolutely impressive. I believe this is the current edition of the same book: (Amazon.com product link shortened) />/
Take a look at some of the drawings and they will likely make any cabinetmaker/furnituremaker cringe.
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Such joinery is why the "shrine carpenter" (mira daika) is a profession separate from conventional house carpenter. The joinery (sashmono) of fine cabinetry and of furniture are also separate professions. Both are very impresive methods well worth the mention.
CHRIS

joints)
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Chris Melanson: I was told once and still believe this saying "a cabinetmaker will always make a good carpenter but a carpenter will seldom make a good cabinetmaker."
Perhaps only union carpenters.
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That might be the problem LOL
CHRIS

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Yikes! I wonder how all the finish carpenters feel right about now...
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In article

There just may be nine times the need for rough carpenters as finish carpenters?

A hack is a hack regardless of his or her putative trade.
Any craft can be practiced as an art.
An artist is an artist.
--
Doors - Locks - Weatherstripping
POB 250121 Atlanta GA 30325
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cabinetmaker
\Cab"i*net*mak`er\ (-m[=a]k`[~e]r), n. One whose occupation is to make cabinets or other choice articles of household furniture, as tables, bedsteads, bureaus, etc.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
cabinetmaker
n : An artisan specializing in making fine articles of wooden furniture.
Do you now see there is a difference and why I become insulted when refered to as a carpenter.
There is absolutly nothing wrong with practicing any occupation in this world as long as you enjoy what you do. I feel that is all that should matter.
CHRIS

woodworking,
and
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Inadequacy is no excuse for false pride.
A complete carpenter does it all...from foundation layout and digging footers, to roofing and gutters...and everything in between...including cabinets.
"How well one's house is built is simply a function of the carpenter who built it."
"First man on the job...last man off."
"Carpentry is the King of the Trades."
"Everybody doing something else is just someone who couldn't make it as a carpenter."
"A good carpenter does it by himself."

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
is a subset ^^^^^^
of the Carpentry and Building Trades Associate Degree. ^^^^^^^^^ http://techdivision.delhi.edu/Cabinetmaking/Cabinetfield.htm
Carpentry is almost infinitely more dangerous and demanding than shop or studio craft. It requires physical agility and strength; mental flexibility, resourcefulness, precision, accuracy, and imagination; and boldness for untested solutions in often precarious circumstances.
A great carpenter is a warrior of wood (and masonry, and metal) often wearing and carrying dozens of pounds of lethal tools up ladders and roofs doing battle to acheive functional and aesthetic (human) perfection that will protect dwellings and their inhabitants almost forever...then turning around and building elegant site-built bookcases and cabinets, windows and doors, and, if need be...a stick or two of furniture.
To be mistaken for a carpenter speaks well of you and the generosity of others.
Wisdom would have you take it as a compliment.
--
Doors - Locks - Weatherstripping
POB 250121 Atlanta GA 30325
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You're picking and choosing your citation.

I've known some carpenters whose skill impressed me every day I worked with them. They built MANY cabinets as that is a traditional task of being a carpenter. Take a look at a complex curved stairway in a fine old home. Could you do it?
Most cabinets nowadays are mediocre at best. Sure there are many above average makers, perhaps a few of them hang out on the wreck, but most stuff ain't worth puttin yourself on a pedestal. I've been in kitchens that cost as much as the house I live in and when it gets down to it, the cabs were just overdone mediocrity with gobs of hardware and trim.

Sounds like you thing that if they are mediocre tradesman but are happy, all is good.
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refered
I would only think you should be insulted if you yourself were a lousy carpenter. If you were a good carpenter there would not be any reason to be ashamed or insulted.
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Dont forget the Norwegian ones, in addition to the Finnish ones. <groan>
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Jesus was a carpenter.....dunno if he made cabinets.
Mutt
snipped-for-privacy@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi) wrote in message wrote:

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On Sun, 11 Apr 2004 01:43:06 GMT, "Chris Melanson"

Yer' wearin' a gasoline suit to a weeny roast, bubba.
If the fans of the Carpenter of Nazareth leave any meat on yer bones,
those of the Carpenter of Boston most certainly will not.
(watson - who thinks that signing such a thing with the name CHRIS is priceless)
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker (ret) Real Email is: tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet Website: http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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Mike If you had taken the time to read the original post you would see I did not ask how to install base boards. You have more than proven my point about attention to detail that most carpenters display in there cabinetmaking skills. Over the years I have hired many journeyman carpenters and I generally find they are capable of building kitchen cabinets or square boxes. but you give them a chair or any thing that involves any type of complicated curve, inlay or veneering and most are incapable of completing the job at all or within any type of time line to be called acceptable. I have also meet people who call themselves cabinetmakers that fall into the same group. I any trade now days you have to almost be a specialist in that particular field. Maybe the skill level of the new generation of "skilled workers" is just not what it used to be. If I was a carpenter I would also be insulted by being called a cabinetmaker especially by a fellow tradesman who in my opinion should be more that informed about the differences between the two trades. There are more than a few people out there who are jack of all trades and master of now . That at whatever particular job they are doing at that time are all of a sudden a qualified Framer, finisher, former, installer, drywaller carpenter cabinetmaker or any of a dozen other trades. To me these are handy men with jobs not tradesmen. In any trade you need to have particular knowledge of that trade that is learned over decades of hands on work to wear that particular title. Not by working the job for a year hear and another for a while and then calling themselves qualified. What they should be saying is that they have some knowledge of whatever job they have been doing not calling themselves tradesmen but jacks of all trades instead. At one time I myself tried to do it all on a job site and was capable of getting the job done. But have learned that you have to hire properly trained and qualified tradesmen to do particular aspects of a job first of all to get the job done right and also on time.
CHRIS
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