face frame...dowels or Kreg jig?

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Dovetails on face frames? Nothing beats joinery that is appropriate for the job ... pocket screws and face frames are one of the best matches in woodworking, IMO.
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Ok, there was a typo, but how did you go from "cabinet draws" to "face frames" ?
The point of the post was to choose joinery that works, not just joinery that meets some non-functional requirement.
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"DJ Delorie" wrote in message

I looked at, and replied to, the subject line ... up there ^ ... neat trick, try it sometime. ;>)
I don't know, maybe my reader is somehow "misthreaded" ... How did you go from face frames, with regard to dowels vs Kreg jig, to dovetails and cabinet drawers?
Damn, this feels like the Twilight Zone? My point, which you originally quoted, was strictly about the Kreg vs dowels for face frames ... I would be that last to argue with you about dovetails on drawers.
I'm going back to the shop, turn the lights on, then off, and then come back in and start over.
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I was replying to someone talking about whether to glue or not glue a kreg joint, in a thread contrasting functional joints with historically accurate joints.
Ok, it was a bit of a stretch.
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On 23 Oct 2003, Swingman spake unto rec.woodworking:

         Am I the only one here who makes face frames with half-lap joints? I don't remember why I do it that way, I think it might have been an article in a Fine Woodworking from the '80s. At any rate, the half laps are self-aligning and give lots of surface area for solid gluing. Is this an unusual method?
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I usually make dust frames for cabinet drawers with "half lap" joints and, now that I think about it, I am wondering why I don't use pocket hole screws for that task also ... creature of habit, I guess.
Although I've tried it a time or two, I personally have a much easier time getting M&T joints and/or pocket hole joints for face frames square without gaps than I do "half lap" joints. But like the above, it is more or less what you are familiar with and what works for you.
Actually, the joints above are what my grandfather, and an old cabinetmaker I worked for in England for a short time, called a "halving joint", they both used what we refer to today as a "half-lap" joint only on end grain.
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Nooooo this methods is not unusual. I used to build them this way. The only problem is that you can make no mistakes and easily fix them.
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Kreg rules!
dave
Ted wrote:

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Ok now be honest all of you pro pocket hole people. How many of those damn step bits have you broken? If you say none, me and alot of other people here will know for a fact youre fibbin'!! On the other hand I have yet to ever break a biscuit! LOL
Jim

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None, but I've only gone through a thousand holes or so. How do you manage to break a step bit?

I've broken bisquits before, but then, mine fit pretty tight so I have to hammer them in sometimes.
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None, but then again I've only done a few hundred holes with it so far.
PJ
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I've only used 4 or 5 packages of screws, but I've never broken a bit. I've had a biscuit machine since 1992, but I don't use it much. I use a few grains of sand and clamping cauls for glue-ups and prefer m&t joints for other applications. I find pocket screws acceptable for face frames.

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Well, the tip of the bit is about 1/2" long and 1/8" in diameter. I do not recall having ever broken a 1/8" bit. I have 2 Kreg bits. I have a spare for when the other is being resharpened. I have probably been through 4 or 5 thousand holes and have not broken one yet nor do I baby the bits. Keep them sharp and you will lessen the likelihood of breaking one.
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Ok I guess I got a way different bit then. My bit was an 1/8 but it was alot longer that 1/2 before it stepped up. More like a full inch or so. The stupid thing would bind in the jig just a slight amount and pop, there it would go. I threw the thing across the shop and have never looked back at it. Besides I hate screws and nails in woodworking, only use em when I absolutely have to. I guess Im old fashioned!
Jim

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Well for clarification, I just put the caliper on my 2 Kreg HSS bits. The 1/8" tip is 17/32" long. And it really should not be longer as it would drill too deeply and into the jig providing the larger 3/8" section of the bit is set correctly to drill deep enough for the screw to enter the other board.
Did you have one of those 2 piece stepped drill bits where the smaller tip is adjustable and replaceable?
I could definitely see how a 1" tip extension could give you problems..
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My bit only has a 1/2" tip on it too, but the K2000's depth-setting jig has enough room for a much longer tip. Maybe they realized it was a bad idea and switched to a shorter tip?
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