Face Frame: Are biscuits or Pocket Hole joinery needed

I am making face frames for some cabinets that will set on the floor and provide a base for a glue up table in my garaaahhshop. A friend of mine told me that the glues made nowadays are plenty strong enough for this task and I don't need biscuits or a pocket hole jig for the f/f joinery since the stress on them will not be too great. I use Titebond glue. I will be attaching the f/f's to the plywood cabinets with glue and brads. Think this will be okay? Inputs please, thanks.
Joey in Chesapeake, Va
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pocket holes w/ glue

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"Joseph Smith" wrote in message

Unless you do a miter joint with a spline, you're going to have an end grain glue joint to contend with on all four corners, so NO, just gluing is not an option if you want to do it right.
Traditional way is M & T joint. More modern method is biscuits, or pocket hole joinery.
My favorite for cabinet FF is pocket hole joinery ... all the strength needed for the partcular application, no clamping, immediate availability of the FF for assembly with no dry time and, if you cut your parts right, a squared up FF where it counts.
Just my tuppence ...
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I used biscuits until I bought a Kreg jig. With quality cuts, pocket hole joinery is fast, easy and extremely accurate.
Barry
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Pocket hole joinery is fast and simple and adequate for most cabinet applications where the joint doesn't see alot of stress. However, if this is going to be something that receives alot of abuse you might want something alot stronger. Mortise and tenon being my first choice and biscuits second. The screws that hold the pocket hole joint together simply cannot provide this kind of strength alone and at the very least should be re-enforced with glue to get the most you can get from the joint.
Jim

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"James D Kountz" wrote in message

is
second.
with
I would respectfully argue the point. :)
I am convinced that "strength of joint" issues are negligible, and mostly irrelevant, in face frame construction.
Face frames, by definition, are attached to the cabinetry sides, tops and bottoms, most often glued to same. This combining of parts gives both components a rigidity and strength that they may not have separately.
In my experience constructing quite a few traditional style cabinets, the resulting difference in "strength" between a face frame joined with pocket hole screws and properly attached to cabinet sides, and a face frame joined using any other joinery method, is negligible for all practical purposes.
That, and the convenience, as previously noted, of the pocket hole joinery for use in face frames, makes them an ideal joinery method for that particular application.
That said, there are certainly aesthetic reasons for not using the method. I generally shy away from use in fine furniture, tables and most doors, particularly where they may be seen. But this is more a result of my own prejudices toward traditional M & T joinery, rather than "strength of joint" issues.
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Learn to use the biscuits and you'll be forever happy.
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Rumpty

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Opinions, opinions, opinions, everyone's got 'em! Sooo, with that in mind, my choice is pocket holes and wood screws to secure face frames. I use biscuits many places but prefer the pocket screws because it pulls the frame together and you don't have to use a lot of clamps to hold the frame during the glue drying process. With big face frames clamps can get rather unwieldy(sp?)
That's my opinion.... and as they say, "And I'm sticking by it" !
Don Dando

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Excellent inputs. I have a biscuit joiner and biscuits, but I have also been looking for an excuse to convince the SWMBO to let me buy the Kregg kit. Guess I'll see if she goes for it.
Joey
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get the kreg kit, first time I tried it it was perfect for me. I've used biscuits in the past and wasn't happy about seeing part of the biscuit in the joint when the drawer was open.
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Joe, get the kreg kit, first time I tried it it was perfect for me. I've used biscuits in the past and wasn't happy about seeing part of the biscuit in the joint when the drawer was open.
--

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"Joseph Smith" < snipped-for-privacy@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
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Anyway you cut it, pocket hole joinery is UGLY when it's in a location where it can be seen---I don't care HOW you plug the holes. Biscuits, splines, M&T are far superior AND stronger. If ya can't line up a face frame without pocket joinery, you're in need of retraining. I know, I know, they're faster, simpler, and down-and dirty--- but they're ALWAYS ugly!! Roger (waiting for the brickbats) 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

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