Face Frame Alignment

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I read in my Building Kitchen Cabinets book that the face frame should be aligned so that it's flush with the inside bottom of the case. However looking around Home Expo all their cabinets have about a 1/4" lip between the face frame and the cabinet bottom (and it's like that in our current cabinets). Thoughts ?
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Shoot for close to flush; say less than 1/32" higher than the bottom of the cabinet. Perfectly flush is a mark of attention to detail and some cabinetmakers make the FF flush with the bottom as a matter of course. Others leave it a bit higher.
David
damian penney wrote:

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It's a production thing. If you are building fine furniture you design the edges to be exactly together and hand plane them to an exact smooth finish, gently creating razor thin curls of wood as classiscal music wafts slowly through the shop.
In the real world, you design them with a 1/4 overlap so as long as you get withing 3/16 it's all good baby and you bang it on with your nail gun as Howard Stern blasts out of the raspy stereo speakers in the corner.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com says...

I make mine flush because I like them that way and I'd like to think I turn out a far better cabinet then what you'll find at Home Expo but, when you come right down to it, it really doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference in the functionality of the cabinet.
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
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Be kind to SWMBO, if the frame is not flush it leaves a little place for crud to catch. If flush, it is much easier to wipe clean.
--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
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should
1/4"
that
I
lot
I guess I'm not getting this. To make it flush would mean the width of the face frame at the bottom would be no more than 3/4" (the thickness of the wood it is covering). Isn't that right?
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Flush just on the inner edge of the face frame. The frame can be as wide as you like.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Doug Miller wrote:

of
thickness
wide as

Ok, but you'd have a big edge of the face frame hanging over the edge of the cabinet, right? Any pics to demonstrate what this might look like?
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Yes. So what? That's the way the bottom rail of most cabinets is attached anyway.

Looks like a normal cabinet.
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=========||
In the above, assume the == line is the bottom of the cabinet and the || line is the face frame. The face frame is usually about 1 1/2 inches and the bottom of the cabinet is usually 3/4 inch. In a base cabinet there is no problem since the lower part of the face frame stands clear of the floor, and on a wall cabinet the overhang is no problem either as the face frame just hangs down a little.
Note I could not figure out how to get the top of the || to be flush with the top of the == so use your imagination here. Also if you look at the cabinets in your kitchen or bathroom you can probably see it in real life.
--

Roger Shoaf

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Roger Shoaf wrote:

edge
||
and
there is

floor,
frame
Ok, forgot about the toe kick area, and I certainly wasn't thinking of cabinets that hang on the wall!
Thx.
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OK ... Here's a cabinet with the 1/8th" lip.
Sorry about the focus (new camera, and all that) and the white in the cabinet corners are artifacts/reflection from the camera flash, but it will give you an idea of the subject.
http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/cablip.jpg
The bottom rail is coming toward you ... the "lip" between the top of the FF rail and the floor of the cabinet is, in this case, subtle, but present.
As far as the much mentioned "cleaning" aspect of a subtle lip like this, it has never been a problem IME, and I'd bet that anyone with actual experience with this "design element" will verify that is rarely the case.
As in all cases, ymmv
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There is nothing stopping you from and wrong with the face frame extending past the bottom of the cabinet floor into the toe kick area. Typically the bottom of my Face Frames are 1"- 1 1/4" wide, extending past the bottom of the cabinet floor about 1/4" - 3/4".
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"damian penney" wrote in message

Anybody can do flush. I leave an elegant 1/8th" lip ... it is a "mark of distinction" to me, and I defy you to find a better built cabinet.
IOW ... go with what you like and don't worry what others say. ;>)
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Okay, thanks guys, personally I like them flush so I'll shoot for that, knowing my luck they will end 1/8" lower than the bottom though...
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"damian penney" wrote in message

Just keep in mind that you will then have to "edge band" your shelf paper. :)
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Do you use biscuits to maintain flush? I find it works great.
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That is how I was planning on getting it flush, yes.
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Lately I've taken to an entirely different way to get perfect fitting face frames.
I cut and dry fit the rails and stiles making one stile is slightly over sized in width. I cut biscuits for the joints in the face frame then I glue and clamp one of the stiles in place on the carcass. That one I flush too the side of the carcass. When the glue has set up I apply glue and insert the biscuits and fit the rails glue and clamp them down to the carcass. Since each is hand laid they are easily placed flush with the shelves. When that glue is set up I apply the second over sized stile in the same manner and when the glue has dried I use a flush cut bit to trim it flush to the carcass.
Due to clamp time it takes a couple of hours longer to do it that way but the result is a perfectly fitting face frame every time with no rush to fix things if I find I happened to maybe cut a rail a tad shy or proud or something thing isn't exactly square, it happens to all of us.
Note, I use the second stile with clamps but without glue to close the joints between the first stile and the rails.
--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
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What connects the rails to the stiles? Glue? Glue and biscuits? It _seems_ that in your process there is no force applied to the stiles into the rails. I'm not saying that this is necessarily a problem. TIA. -- Igor
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